[Official] Canadian Grand Prix 2019: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[Razzzor]

Bit of a joke really. Do stewards want Merc to win every race? Letting Ferrari keep the win would be much better for the sport, even if it's debatable if it's unsafe re-entry. Of course how does Grosjean get away with it on the first lap, his was more dangerous.

Lewis going on that he doesn't want to win this way, but he was the first guy on the radio whinges that its an unsafe reentry. If it wasn't for Lewis whinging like a b1tch, the stewards probably wouldn't have looked at it.

Vettel; another mistake.
Leclerc; what the hell are they pitting him right behind Verstappen for? Are their strategists complete idiots? Luckily he had enough pace to pass him again.

Easy to lose interest in F1 this year with Merc domination again. Lewis was obviously faster in this race and would have easily won if he'd started on pole. These races are barely worth watching.

[chillibowl]

I dont know...dont agree with the penalty but dont think the stewards gave the penalty because LH said it over the radio.

I mean the fact that they played the delayed audio in the first place is because race control had already spotted the preceding event and marked it as one worth further attention...hence why they played the audio no?

Im sure his team lodged a formal complaint also so a moot point on who said what first anyways...at the end of the day the race was decided by a referee's whistle and that sucks.

[Paradise City]

The stewards decision seemed impulsive. Almost as if they were trying far too hard to prove themselves capable of making a decision independent of other factors.

Vettel was very Vettel afterwards with a very witty protest, some sharp reflections but he didn't burn the house down getting too hot under the collar.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Bit of a joke really. Do stewards want Merc to win every race? Letting Ferrari keep the win would be much better for the sport, even if it's debatable if it's unsafe re-entry. Of course how does Grosjean get away with it on the first lap, his was more dangerous.

Lewis going on that he doesn't want to win this way, but he was the first guy on the radio whinges that its an unsafe reentry. If it wasn't for Lewis whinging like a b1tch, the stewards probably wouldn't have looked at it.

Vettel; another mistake.
Leclerc; what the hell are they pitting him right behind Verstappen for? Are their strategists complete idiots? Luckily he had enough pace to pass him again.

Easy to lose interest in F1 this year with Merc domination again. Lewis was obviously faster in this race and would have easily won if he'd started on pole. These races are barely worth watching.

Razzzor pretty much says it all here.

[Nikki Katz]

Obviously I'm unhappy with the stewards' decision, as it looks like basically everyone is.

I also really hate the fake banner graphics that they stick up misaligned at the side of the track this year. I am going to make a point not to play F1 game or use Pirelli.

It was an ok race other than that, I'm just struggling to get excited about F1 this year.

[Paradise City]

It was an unsafe reentry in a broad sense. It just wasn't a deliberately unsafe reentry meriting a penalty. It was a mistake and an honest mistake shouldn't be punished. It should be regarded as racing. As for Hamilton, he must've got a shock. And it's intuitive to be annoyed if someone else is the force almost crashing you into the wall.

Anyway - the nanny state stuff has gotta go. Regulations provide a solid framework but discretion and reflection also needs to guide these kind of decisions.

[gert]

What a hollow victory.
Hand the championship to crybabies Lewis and Toto already and all the FIA folks and that bunch of stewards will be happy.

Such a farce.


Good points to Vettel for telling the public not to boo Hamilton (but to boo the stewards instead), and for moving the number boards (that was funny, actually)

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

It’s an interesting debate. Throw another curveball, if there was no grass and it was tarmac run off, Vettel would have gained an advantage and would have been penilised too.

He would not have. To be penalised when ahead you have to either extend the gap or be defending from an overtake which is then thwarted. Whilst we don’t know for sure if Vettel would have extended the gap, given he was sideways and losing time it seems extremely unlikely. Lewis was not close to attempting an overtake on the entry of the corner. If there was tarmac run off then it would have been a non-incident.

Let’s also remember that Lewis lost nothing in the exchange. He entered the corner 2nd and he exited the corner 2nd, with cleaner tyres than Vettel and closer. So it wasn’t like it cost Lewis anything. It was simply a mistake that Lewis wasn’t able to capitalise upon because of the way it played out. And that, is 100% pure motor racing. Sometimes the dice lands the way you want it, sometimes it doesn’t. Unless the stewards adjust the dice afterwards, which is what happened here.

[Taxi645]

I think you can only propperly judge the situation if you have Vettel's telemetry. My assesment is his speed component perpendicalur to the wall was not so great that he wouldn't have been able to avoid leaving a car width for Lewis on the outside. That is including any slight unstettling of the car by the curb.

What I think what happened was, that in an effort to keep Hamilton behind, he applied too much throttle too keep enough steering lock to left in order to leave a car width on the outside.

So my take is that his unsafe return to the track was not by mistake but because he applied too much throttle from an somewhat unstable car with dirty tires. A perfectly normal thing to do for any driver wanting to win the race or a battle for position, but an avoidable unsafe return to the track none the less.

Now this is my view solely based on the video evidence, but as said one would only be able to judge it properly when having telemetry (specifically his speed vectors and throttle position) of Vettel's car.

So strictly speaking I think the stewards made the right call based on the evidence publically available. That said if they would have judged otherwise I would've understood as well.

[GT6]

That penalty ruined the end of the GP as once Lewis aware of the penalty he had no choice but to stay behind Seb, OK Lewis initially moaned but you could see in his eyes that he thought the penalty harsh.

[Skam85]

Imagine how many pages this would be if F1Guy was still around

[chunterer]

I also think there was a bit of naievety with both drivers actions. Seb desperate to keep his lead and scrabbling back on track leading to the eventual pen', Hamilton thinking to go for an overtake when that gap was 99% going to disappear as soon as he tried to fill it.

Reminded me a bit of Schuey and Hill in Adelaide '94?

More generally Vettel we know is hot headed when things don't go to plan. His despondent press conference was revealing.
I think he is burnt out and tired of the constant battle trying to keep Ferrari in the picture.
If he's not in the game over the next few races Ferrari better quickly look for a replacement cause I think he will retire at the end of the season....

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

I think you can only propperly judge the situation if you have Vettel's telemetry. My assesment is his speed component perpendicalur to the wall was not so great that he wouldn't have been able to avoid leaving a car width for Lewis on the outside. That is including any slight unstettling of the car by the curb.

What I think what happened was, that in an effort to keep Hamilton behind, he applied too much throttle too keep enough steering lock to left in order to leave a car width on the outside.

So my take is that his unsafe return to the track was not by mistake but because he applied too much throttle from an somewhat unstable car with dirty tires. A perfectly normal thing to do for any driver wanting to win the race or a battle for position, but an avoidable unsafe return to the track none the less.

Now this is my view solely based on the video evidence, but as said one would only be able to judge it properly when having telemetry (specifically his speed vectors and throttle position) of Vettel's car.

So strictly speaking I think the stewards made the right call based on the evidence publically available. That said if they would have judged otherwise I would've understood as well.

The stewards did indeed review Vettel's telemetry and that seems to have been a major factor in their decision. See here: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision
I had noticed the last jink right too on one of the video replays, after Vettel had apparently gathered up the initial incident.

I am somewhat at a loss to understand the majority on here and other places in Vettel's favour, except perhaps that the world is full of Ferrari-fanboys and Ham-haters. Vettel went off the track due to a driving error. He came back on in a manner that was clearly unsafe. He got a penalty. If drivers are not penalised for unsafe driving, racing will turn into a very expensive, very dangerous version of banger-racing.

The incident reminded me of my only ever visit to a karting clerk of the course. My son (he's on this forum, he might confess) ran off track and then barged back on as quickly as possible in order to minimise the loss. He was excluded. We didn't moan. We didn't rearrange the track furniture. We just accepted that he had done wrong in the heat of the moment and learnt from it.

[TrapezeArtist]

In all the fuss over Vettel, we seem to have missed another example of 24 carat gold-plated petulance. Magnussen was complaining on the radio that this was the worst F1 car he had ever driven. Gunter Steiner slapped that one down pretty sharply, reminding him that he had crashed the car yesterday and the guys had been up all night rebuilding it, so it was a bit ungrateful to complain now.

It was also a bit worrying that Norris's McLaren appeared to break it's rear suspension under braking. F1 cars aren't supposed to do things like that these days. Lando lost what could have been a very good result (he has impressed me greatly this season) but controlled the car well and parked it safely.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

The stewards did indeed review Vettel's telemetry and that seems to have been a major factor in their decision. See here: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision
I had noticed the last jink right too on one of the video replays, after Vettel had apparently gathered up the initial incident.

I am somewhat at a loss to understand the majority on here and other places in Vettel's favour, except perhaps that the world is full of Ferrari-fanboys and Ham-haters. Vettel went off the track due to a driving error. He came back on in a manner that was clearly unsafe. He got a penalty. If drivers are not penalised for unsafe driving, racing will turn into a very expensive, very dangerous version of banger-racing.

The incident reminded me of my only ever visit to a karting clerk of the course. My son (he's on this forum, he might confess) ran off track and then barged back on as quickly as possible in order to minimise the loss. He was excluded. We didn't moan. We didn't rearrange the track furniture. We just accepted that he had done wrong in the heat of the moment and learnt from it.

I think the Stewards would be wise to be quicker with explaining the specifics about their decicsion. They don't operate in a vacuum, commercial pressure could in future impede their ability to objectively do their work if certain people don't keep their backs straight. I mean all casual observers have already made up their mind, they don't read any specifics 12 hours later. The intitial explanation was extremely brief.

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

In all the fuss over Vettel, we seem to have missed another example of 24 carat gold-plated petulance. Magnussen was complaining on the radio that this was the worst F1 car he had ever driven. Gunter Steiner slapped that one down pretty sharply, reminding him that he had crashed the car yesterday and the guys had been up all night rebuilding it, so it was a bit ungrateful to complain now.

Yes, that one raised my eyebrow as well. Public apology would seem in order.

[wolfhound]

Just a few comments
Vettel seems to have a habit of occasionally falling off when car 44 appears in his mirrors.

If the wall was not there I could imagine Hamilton on the grass completing the job as Vettel tried to sort it out.

It seems as though it was what happened after Vettel regained control that brought the Stewards to their decision.
It a pity that they did not mention this a lot earlier.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Lewis going on that he doesn't want to win this way, but he was the first guy on the radio whinges that its an unsafe reentry. If it wasn't for Lewis whinging like a b1tch, the stewards probably wouldn't have........

Utter tripe

Hamilton informed his team that Vettel put him into the wall at 100mph. Did it in a calm way, certainly didn’t whinge about it, and it was no different to 100 other radio messages from other drivers during the race. In any case stewards don’t react to what drivers say like that.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

It was an unsafe reentry in a broad sense. It just wasn't a deliberately unsafe reentry meriting a penalty. It was a mistake and an honest mistake shouldn't be punished.

That's not how the stewards see it.

'A second steering wheel input from Sebastian Vettel after he regained control of his Ferrari Formula 1 car was pivotal in his Canadian Grand Prix penalty [...] rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right,

[CCTV footage] showing Vettel moving his head and looking in the mirrors to see Hamilton was during the moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

On board footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head turning towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out - suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.'

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Just a few comments
Vettel seems to have a habit of occasionally falling off when car 44 appears in his mirrors.

Not just car 44. JB frightened him off the road a few years ago in Canada, and there have been others.

Originally Posted by wolfhound

the wall was not there I could imagine Hamilton on the grass completing the job as Vettel tried to sort it out.

And Vettel would have been screaming "He passed me while he was off-track".

Originally Posted by wolfhound

seems as though it was what happened after Vettel regained control that brought the Stewards to their decision.
It a pity that they did not mention this a lot earlier.

Quite possibly. Though I sympathise with the stewards (I never thought I would type that!). They are under all sorts of pressure including time, and a detailed explanation would take a lot longer to produce. Perhaps the two stage process is best. Deliver the decision quickly. Then deliver the explanation a little later.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

In all the fuss over Vettel, we seem to have missed another example of 24 carat gold-plated petulance. Magnussen was complaining on the radio that this was the worst F1 car he had ever driven. Gunter Steiner slapped that one down pretty sharply, reminding him that he had crashed the car yesterday and the guys had been up all night rebuilding it, so it was a bit ungrateful to complain now.

It was also a bit worrying that Norris's McLaren appeared to break it's rear suspension under braking. F1 cars aren't supposed to do things like that these days. Lando lost what could have been a very good result (he has impressed me greatly this season) but controlled the car well and parked it safely.

I find Haas extremely hypocritical. Grosjean is on the radio every race, moaning if there's a fly hits his visor. Perez absolutely mugged him, 100% fairly and Grosjean wants the stewards involved. And he seems to get "copy that" a lot in his reply. KMags points out the car is an undriveable mess and gets slapped down. Whilst I understand the slap in isoation, it doesn't make sense in context.

Seems like Grosjean has a free pass to make an arse of himself every week and constantly complaining about stupid nonsense, but KMag is held to a higher standard. Grosjean is like the baby brother where he can do no wrong. It's bizarre.

--

I found the end of the race very interesting. The dynamic going on at Mercedes was very Ferrari Austria 2002. Full on the celebration, yay we've won, we're awesome. Jump out the car and into the team, have the hugs and happiness. And then when the boos come and we're shocked, we'll pretend that didn't happen, that we're not happy and we'll invite Vettel onto the top step. He looked visibly shocked and upset at being booed, to the point of addressing it with "I don't know why people are booing".

It's almost identical to Austria, where Schumacher threw his hand up in celebration and was happy until he was booed - and then he gives Rubens a trophy and swaps the podium around.

Not a criticism of Mercedes - but they were very clearly shocked at the reaction they got. They were absolutely in full on party mode and dialed it back extremely quickly once the boos came.

And Toto Wolff. Oh dear Toto. He said the rules "are black and white". When Brundle challenged him, he said "I'm not going to argue with you, it's not black and white". Sorry Toto, can you clarify what colours are going on here?

Like Ferrari at Austria, Mercedes seemed completely oblivious as to how upset people would be at these actions. Mercedes actions are obviously much more justified than what Ferrari did in 2002, but the parallels were interesting none-the-less.

[ascarracinguk]

What Mercedes actions? This was an FIA decision to implement FIA rules following a Ferrari mistake. Quite frankly I don’t know how anyone can bring Hamilton/ Mercedes into this and try to blame them even 1%

[TrapezeArtist]

Was Leclerc ordered to drop back to preserve Vettel's second place? The C4 commentators seemed very confused about it. The last time I saw an interval time was about 2 laps from the end when (I think) it showed Leclerc 5.something seconds down. But was that 5 seconds behind Vettel (on the road) or 5 seconds behind Hamilton?

Generally this year, Leclerc has had to sacrifice quite a few points and places on the altar of Saint Sebastian. I suppose he must have known where you stand when you go to Ferrari as Number 2.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

What Mercedes actions? This was an FIA decision to implement FIA rules following a Ferrari mistake. Quite frankly I don’t know how anyone can bring Hamilton/ Mercedes into this and try to blame them even 1%

Lewis asked for it be reported it. Mercedes reported it. We know that happened - Toto confirmed it. Once again, I'm not criticizing Mercedes for that - but they certainly took action. Pretty standard.

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Was Leclerc ordered to drop back to preserve Vettel's second place? The C4 commentators seemed very confused about it. The last time I saw an interval time was about 2 laps from the end when (I think) it showed Leclerc 5.something seconds down. But was that 5 seconds behind Vettel (on the road) or 5 seconds behind Hamilton?

Generally this year, Leclerc has had to sacrifice quite a few points and places on the altar of Saint Sebastian. I suppose he must have known where you stand when you go to Ferrari as Number 2.

I'm assuming C4 and Sky made the same mistake and read the edited timing screen before the results were final. The 5 seconds you refer to is 5 seconds behind Lewis.

A few seconds after they crossed the line, the TV graphics swapped Lewis and Vettel and had the gap at 1.3 seconds. But that was the gap between Vettel in front of Lewis. But this meant the gap on screen was wrong, as it said 5 seconds or so to the car in front, which is now listed as Vettel - which it wasn't, as that was a placeholder.

[Wims]

This was an absolutely disgusting decision from the FIA. These kind of decisions is going to kill any interest that's left in F1.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought Vettel rejoined the track ahead of but also along side Hamilton?

Vettel rejoined the track ahead, Hamilton was steaming full speed into a yellow flag situation