The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Peter Mallett]

Thought that would be your answer. It does not comply with the treaty..

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Thought that would be your answer. It does not comply with the treaty..

Peter, pretty well all EU countries have criteria for EU citizens who wish to reside in their countries, except, of course, the UK. Sweden, and I think Denmark, have a similar policy to Spain.

I have yet to hear of any EU directives to any EU country to stop them implementing their residency rules. However, around 2012, the EU did stop Spain from making it mandatory to have a resident's card. Which was a bit of a pain as many retail outlets would insist on seeing the card if you were making a payment with a debit/credit card. People then had to start carrying their passport around.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Peter, pretty well all EU countries have criteria for EU citizens who wish to reside in their countries, except, of course, the UK. Sweden, and I think Denmark, have a similar policy to Spain.

I have yet to hear of any EU directives to any EU country to stop them implementing their residency rules. However, around 2012, the EU did stop Spain from making it mandatory to have a resident's card. Which was a bit of a pain as many retail outlets would insist on seeing the card if you were making a payment with a debit/credit card. People then had to start carrying their passport around.

Standards eh? Just love them.

Everyone should have some ... and they often do. Just not the same Standards despite (or should that be "to spite"?) the EU.

This article seems to point out some of the differences in interpretation of 'standards' between the UK and France.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...terstroke.html


Quite tempting in many ways. It sounds like living in the EU but without having to take its rules and edicts seriously.

I'm not at all sure that is entirely the way things are. I have some friends living elsewhere in France who somewhat bemoan its bureaucracy in their region.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Peter, whether I have read the treaty or not, having lived in Spain for about 10 years, I do know their residency rules for EU nationals. To acquire a "residencia" which you need to apply for if you wish to stay for more than 3 months. And below is from the UK.gov website on the matter:

(....)

I can tell you that the Spanish authorities in the area where I lived insist on the above. And they don't always make it easy either.

How is your Spanish experience relevant to the UK? Surely you don't believe that every EU 'state' implements the Directives to the letter in identical fashion do you? Of course Spain has tighter controls on immigrants, they have 14% unemployment and have need to be protectionist. And because Brussels doesn't want to consider how their policies my have contributed to it they turn a blind eye....

[S griffin]

Laws are different for each country. Despite the EUs guidelines, every country is allowed to have it’s own laws. Spain has it’s own problems with unemployment and the like. Obviously the EU are not interfering, although they can help while necessary

[grantp]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Laws are different for each country. Despite the EUs guidelines, every country is allowed to have it’s own laws. Spain has it’s own problems with unemployment and the like. Obviously the EU are not interfering, although they can help while necessary

Help like providing money from other member's economies to build unused roads and uncompleted airports?

I mean - airports? Given the EU's stance on the Climate and Pollution why on earth are they trying to encourage people to travel by building airports?

No answer required of course. Airbus Industries would have to be discussed if they tried to take a position on the question and no one, especially the French, would like that.

[Peter Mallett]

It's not guidelines. It's law.

[Mike Bell]

Meanwhile, a sign that the UK is regaining independence, if only for 3 months, and in Morrisons...… I wonder if they'll be original price and original size (no chance)….

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/foodanddri...cid=spartandhp

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Meanwhile, a sign that the UK is regaining independence, if only for 3 months, and in Morrisons...… I wonder if they'll be original price and original size (no chance)….

Independence from the USA?


Different ...

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by grantp

Independence from the USA? Different ...

I thought the only place the bars were ever called Marathon was the UK? So independence from the rest of the world if that was true.....

[VIVA GT]

When these come out would one of you who lives in the Capital get one & post it to me please? (I've always wanted to say I'd done a London Marathon!)

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

When these come out would one of you who lives in the Capital get one & post it to me please? (I've always wanted to say I'd done a London Marathon!)

Ouch! Painful! (Bit I'm going to steal it )

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

For the benefit of Mike Harte, this is the freedom of movement clause in the current EU Treaty. There can be no exceptions unless the EU itself makes them. Ergo, the Spanish government example is not compliant.

Originally Posted by THE TREATY ON EUROPEAN UNION AND THE TREATY ON THE FUNCTIONING OF THE EUROPEAN UNION (2016/C 202/01)

Article 21

(ex Article 18 TEC)

1. Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in the Treaties and by the measures adopted to give them effect.

2. If action by the Union should prove necessary to attain this objective and the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the ordinary legislative procedure, may adopt provisions with a view to facilitating the exercise of the rights referred to in paragraph 1.

3. For the same purposes as those referred to in paragraph 1 and if the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt measures concerning social security or social protection. The Council shall act unanimously after consulting the European Parliament.

[Mike Harte]

Peter, I think that you will find that the treaty applies to workers, which I acknowledged initially. My point is that EU member countries are within their rights to set their own regulations to those who are non-workers which is what Spain and some others have done.


The UK could and should have done the same.

[Peter Mallett]

No it says, Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely. No mention of any further requirements. I've emphasized it for your benefit.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

No it says, Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely. No mention of any further requirements. I've emphasized it for your benefit.

Meanwhile, you are ignoring the part: subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in the Treaties and by the measures adopted to give them effect.

If you look at the notes or explanations to the treaty, you will see that it refers to workers. Which is why Spain allows free movement of EU citizens, and gives them 6 months to settle in to employment, or for non-workers, to provide evidence that they can support themselves without resorting to the Spanish welfare system.

Sweden, for example, only gives 3 months, I believe.

[Peter Mallett]

Actually no I'm not ignoring that. The only restrictions and limitations, other than for national security or public health, are for non-schengen EU citizens; as such UK citizens are only permitted to stay in any EU state for 90 days without employment. It does not work in the reverse. That's probably why the UK government have issued that advice for Spain. It won't apply to any other EU citizens.

It's all here if you want to take the time to read it. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...202EN.01004701

Edit:

Here's an example which repeats the freedom of movement principle:

CHAPTER 1

GENERAL PROVISIONS

Article 67

(ex Article 61 TEC and ex Article 29 TEU)

1. The Union shall constitute an area of freedom, security and justice with respect for fundamental rights and the different legal systems and traditions of the Member States.

2. It shall ensure the absence of internal border controls for persons and shall frame a common policy on asylum, immigration and external border control, based on solidarity between Member States, which is fair towards third-country nationals. For the purpose of this Title, stateless persons shall be treated as third-country nationals.

3. The Union shall endeavour to ensure a high level of security through measures to prevent and combat crime, racism and xenophobia, and through measures for coordination and cooperation between police and judicial authorities and other competent authorities, as well as through the mutual recognition of judgments in criminal matters and, if necessary, through the approximation of criminal laws.

4. The Union shall facilitate access to justice, in particular through the principle of mutual recognition of judicial and extrajudicial decisions in civil matters.

[Peter Mallett]

And just to bore everyone even more: This is the article applicable to employment.

CHAPTER 1

WORKERS

Article 45

(ex Article 39 TEC)

1. Freedom of movement for workers shall be secured within the Union.

2. Such freedom of movement shall entail the abolition of any discrimination based on nationality between workers of the Member States as regards employment, remuneration and other conditions of work and employment.

3. It shall entail the right, subject to limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health:

(a)

to accept offers of employment actually made;

(b)

to move freely within the territory of Member States for this purpose;

(c)

to stay in a Member State for the purpose of employment in accordance with the provisions governing the employment of nationals of that State laid down by law, regulation or administrative action;

(d)

to remain in the territory of a Member State after having been employed in that State, subject to conditions which shall be embodied in regulations to be drawn up by the Commission.

4. The provisions of this Article shall not apply to employment in the public service.

This is the one that applies equally to non Schengen EU citizens.

[gary396]

I saw my first Brexit warning on a Highways Information gantry today. On the A19 heading north towards Newcastle - there was only one so I can't remember the exact wording, something like:

Freight transport papers required may change on 1st November, please check and keep up to date.

I presume that's a Brexit thing? Didn't say where to check of course.....

[Mike Bell]

They’re everywhere, Gary! Especially on Mways heading for ports.....

Still, makes a change from ‘pedestrians reported’ and all the other crap!

[gary396]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

They’re everywhere, Gary! Especially on Mways heading for ports.....

Still, makes a change from ‘pedestrians reported’ and all the other crap!

Didn't realise that. Show's how much motorway driving I've done this year! Haven't even been to a race meeting this season for the first time in many years.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by gary396

Didn't realise that. Show's how much motorway driving I've done this year! Haven't even been to a race meeting this season for the first time in many years.

In fairness to you the messages have only just arrived on the gantries! Likely since all this ‘operation willow warbler’ stuff came out into the open....

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by gary396

Didn't say where to check of course.....

Gary, being up north I'm surprised you didn't know that Newcastle was Freight Permit Central back in the day. 2 lovely ladies spent their days issuing international freight permits and they're probably still sat there, wondering why the phone hasn't rung for a while. Of course, they only dealt with 1% of permits issued. The rest were got from the local printers.


I've kept pretty quiet on the B word lately but have followed the debate of course. However I'm pretty sure none of the Leavers ever endured the misery of "standing on the stairs" at Dover. Ask any old trucker if they want to go back to that era and you'll get a short and succinct explanation of the pro's and con's of the free market. That said, I believe we should have gone with the vote, and done it quickly. The growing national division means what would have taken 20 years to work through will instead take 50. What a load of **** we're leaving for our children to sort out.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

What a load of **** we're leaving for our children to sort out.

If they have any sense the children would make an effort to move elsewhere.

Sadly where "elsewhere" might be, if it offers advantages, is not so easily spotted.

They will have to live with the world as it comes at them.' The grandchildren even more so.

Current problems are rarely of the vacating generation's making. More likely them trying to make the best of whatever has gone before.

Civilisation seems to oscillate like that. Then it tends to disappear for a few centuries.

[S griffin]

Hopefully it won’t come to them moving elsewhere. Hopefully we can continue the good things of this country. We will always have our disagreements. But things aren’t all bad. Of course things in civilisation ain’t what it used to be. But there is still hope somewhere. We’ll see what the future holds