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Old 23 Jun 2020, 12:44 (Ref:3983385)   #76
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And we still think the current, or even the budget capped F1 model, is sustainable?
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 13:36 (Ref:3983398)   #77
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With the 2020 cars to be used in 2021 and possibly again in 2022 i would say there is no reason to question its sustainability/viability for next season at least.

After covid and the ensuing economic recovery who knows...but at least they have reset the bar to some extent.

Of course if they never race again...
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 13:49 (Ref:3983399)   #78
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It seems McLaren have been successful in getting their court action fastracked given their July 17th deadline previously mentioned.
This article in Autosport today puts a bit of light on the process and why /wherefores.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...nancing-battle
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 13:50 (Ref:3983400)   #79
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Hope this works. This seems their best option to keep the team afloat until someone with money comes in
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 14:01 (Ref:3983404)   #80
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Hope this works. This seems their best option to keep the team afloat until someone with money comes in
Why would you assume that someone will come along and inject money into a company that does not appear to have been well managed for many years?
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 15:30 (Ref:3983425)   #81
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Why would you assume that someone will come along and inject money into a company that does not appear to have been well managed for many years?
This goes back to my earlier post about why would anyone invest in an F1 team. Especially right now. I think the only reason to do so would be if you have some money to burn and you want to be part of the "F1 lifestyle" in a big way. That can range from putting your children in a car, to just enjoy being one of the significant fish in a relatively small, but high profile pond.

As to McLaren being poorly run. My perception is that they have been on the rebound? I also think F1 teams have been running on the razors edge for a long time (even when well run). The history over the past decade or so confirms that. Teams coming and going, bankruptcy, corrupt investors/owners, frequent changing of ownership and branding, etc.

The crash and burn aspect has just been working it's way from the bottom up (weakest first). Short lived ventures like USF1, Virgin/Marussia/Manor, then mid-aged survivor like Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India/Racing Point and is now hitting established icons like Williams and McLaren. I am just waiting on Haas to pull out next. I expect Haas is in a wait and see regarding 2020 and maybe 2021 results. Then pulling the plug if not trending in the right direction.

We have talked for years about how it is unsustainable in current form. They couldn't have seen into the future, but in hindsight, if they had only initiated reforms earlier, then a significant kick to the system such as the Covid19 pandemic may not have hurt so much.

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Old 23 Jun 2020, 15:49 (Ref:3983428)   #82
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Richard, re your post above, one has to take into account prior reports that appeared to suggest that McLaren's financial woes are centred around their supercar operation, not their F1 operations. Sales were depressed even before the virus appeared, and they had/have issues surrounding the residual values of older, used cars plus other concerns.
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 17:29 (Ref:3983445)   #83
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Richard, re your post above, one has to take into account prior reports that appeared to suggest that McLaren's financial woes are centred around their supercar operation, not their F1 operations. Sales were depressed even before the virus appeared, and they had/have issues surrounding the residual values of older, used cars plus other concerns.
Agree with that. And I am bullish on the F1 side of things, but apparently everything is lumped together under the McLaren group organization. With solutions (as proposed by McLaren) for the car production side impacting everything.

For example if they are looking to generate short term cash, they are selling off some parts of their heritage collection (which I assume is predominantly on the racing side). Then there is the facilities. Google says that is pretty much the McLaren Technology Centre with that consisting of two (?) buildings. One is the HQ (and I assume core for the racing side) plus another for car production. But I see mention that the car production building contains racing related items (wind tunnel?) Which facilities are being sold. The car side, or both?

It sounds like there is no easy way to unlink the production car financial issues from the rest. Or at least McLaren Group is not looking to cut the car production side loose to remove impact to the other parts. So is there really any significant distinction between the problems of the rest of the business and the racing side if proposed solutions for one impact the other?

I don't revel in any of this. Over the years I have cheered for both Williams and McLaren. So I am sad to see both having these problems.

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Old 23 Jun 2020, 19:03 (Ref:3983454)   #84
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We have talked for years about how it is unsustainable in current form. They couldn't have seen into the future, but in hindsight, if they had only initiated reforms earlier, then a significant kick to the system such as the Covid19 pandemic may not have hurt so much.
but surely Mclaren and Williams were acutely aware of the size of their spending deficit and saw that gap grow over the past two decades. granted Mclaren were much closer in terms of overall budget to RB then Williams but in a sport where money/access to money equals competitive form how could they have not known what their future held?

if Adam Parr's graphic novel was to be believed, SFW cut the legs out from under his attempts to unify the smaller team in pushing for a more equal financial distribution. Ron Denis came back and ousted Whitmarsh who was himself trying to unify the teams to strengthen their bargaining position but ultimately saw those efforts fail as well.

it seems to me they had their chances to initiate reform but ultimately on an ownership/organizational level, they chose the other path.

for sure i love these teams also and have sympathy for them but live by the sword, die by the sword.
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 20:40 (Ref:3983461)   #85
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it seems to me they had their chances to initiate reform but ultimately on an ownership/organizational level, they chose the other path.
I feel that some industries are a lifestyle and that "logic" rarely gets applied when decisions are made. Examples are teaching (Here in the US teacher are treated poorly. You can make much more money with less effort doing other work. They do the job for the love of it and just deal with the lack of respect and poor pay... my wife is a teacher), software development (I am in that industry and believe me, most treat it as a lifestyle. Thankfully it is a good paying one so that issue is a moot point) and any type of professional motor racing such as F1 which typically lives on the edge of collapse. Like I call out software development as a successful "lifestyle" being a drug addict is a destructive lifestyle. F1 (as a business) seems pretty destructive.

So you will have big teams playing the game of large companies/corporate entities. Creating their presentations and spreadsheets that show a bright and shiny future, but its all just a mess that make little sense other than it is fun to go racing (I do love racing!) The quest to build "flying cars" it another. It's an imminently stupid idea but yet there is always someone tilting at that windmill, but their heart tells them to ignore their brain.

This will sound like I am savaging motorsports, but note, I am really commenting on those who try to make it as a "business". Or maybe more specifically those who try to grow the size way beyond what is sustainable. They tend to do this willfully and ignoring the alarm bells (like I say it's a lifestyle, maybe an addiction)

Richard

PS: I wasn't aware of the Adam Parr book. It sounds interesting, but the physical copy is $86 on Amazon. Is it worth it (I don't care for e-books).
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Old 23 Jun 2020, 23:01 (Ref:3983473)   #86
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This could be really serious. If they can’t use their assets to secure debt, they might be screwed. Not sure why they think the lienor would relinquish effective title.
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Old 24 Jun 2020, 07:10 (Ref:3983495)   #87
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It seems McLaren have been successful in getting their court action fastracked given their July 17th deadline previously mentioned.
This article in Autosport today puts a bit of light on the process and why /wherefores.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...nancing-battle

Iím not buying McLarens claims that is all due to Covid. The automotive side of the company has been in trouble even before Covid hit and Covid has just accelerated the effects of this. If McLaren want to avoid being like Aston Martin then they need to change their business in the automotive sector. They make too many cars for their dealers to sell for one example. They make some fantastic cars but the business side is letting that down.
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Old 24 Jun 2020, 07:16 (Ref:3983497)   #88
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This could be really serious. If they canít use their assets to secure debt, they might be screwed. Not sure why they think the lienor would relinquish effective title.

The holders of the notes have already agreed to do so, but only if McLaren agrees to their financing terms. And McLaren's argument is that they are able to refinance elsewhere on far better terms which would be beneficial to the group.
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Old 24 Jun 2020, 15:26 (Ref:3983613)   #89
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PS: I wasn't aware of the Adam Parr book. It sounds interesting, but the physical copy is $86 on Amazon. Is it worth it (I don't care for e-books).
wow that is pretty pricey. while it was a unique way to tell his story with some amusing anecdotes from inside the shark tank i dont think it justifies that price.

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...It's an imminently stupid idea but yet there is always someone tilting at that windmill, but their heart tells them to ignore their brain.
actually that pretty much sums up the book nicely...saved yourself $86 there!
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Old 24 Jun 2020, 17:20 (Ref:3983640)   #90
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McLaren are set for more borrowing to keep them in business whilst they arrange more borrowing/investment...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...-national-bank

The McLaren Group looks set to arrange a loan from the National Bank of Bahrain (NBB) as it seeks the finances to address an urgent cash shortfall.

The move would allow the company to obtain at least the first stage of the required refinancing from a "friendly" organisation that shares a significant part of its ownership with McLaren itself.

The NBB is 44% owned by the Mumtalakat Holding Company, Bahrain's sovereign wealth fund, which also owns 56% of McLaren. A loan between the two parties would be on more favourable terms than those available on the financial markets.

Court documents have indicated that McLaren is seeking £280m, and that new funding is required by mid-July as the impact of the COVID-19 crisis hits the company hard.



I can't see any of this ending well, paying all of this back is surely reliant on a rapid turnaround in the performance of the road car and F1 team businesses?
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