[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by old man

I did a check a couple of years ago into races held in the UK back in the 50s and early 60s, can't remember how I did this but I found there were more F1 races in the British calendar than in the World Championship at the time. Many were open to F2 cars as well.

In 1979/80/81 there was the Aurora AFX Formula One Championship. It ran cars that were two or three seasons old. It also had Formula Two Cars to bolster the grids. Was quite good fun especially as they got some stars from bikes to drive as well.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

In 1979/80/81 there was the Aurora AFX Formula One Championship. It ran cars that were two or three seasons old. It also had Formula Two Cars to bolster the grids. Was quite good fun especially as they got some stars from bikes to drive as well.

Close 78-80, my parents had their first experience of four wheeled motorsport in the Brands Hatch 79 August Bank Holiday. They managed to spot Martin Shaw of the Professionals in the crowd!

Enjoyed that interview with Ross Brawn, it sound like he's the man to pull the sport in the right direction and certainly has more sense than Bernie has had

[Mike Bell]

I started watching the Brawn interview this morning, then had to go out. Now find access blocked / vid removed or whatever by Sky, so hope you're right and I can find it elsewhere!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I started watching the Brawn interview this morning, then had to go out. Now find access blocked / vid removed or whatever by Sky, so hope you're right and I can find it elsewhere!

If you do Mike, could you subtly let me know how I can find it please? I'd like to see it myself. (As long as this is allowed, obviously...)

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I started watching the Brawn interview this morning, then had to go out. Now find access blocked / vid removed or whatever by Sky, so hope you're right and I can find it elsewhere!

I generally think these things are found automatically via YouTube's "Content ID" system, but sometimes I guess it can be via sharing links. Regardless, lets see how long it stays up. Here is a different link...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7JnEGSsjRE

As best as I can tell Sky doesn't post this type of content on their own YouTube channel. What's interesting is you can see similar Sky content on YouTube (not on Sky's channel) going back a number of years. Why pull stuff now?

Richard

[Mike Harte]

I believe this is what you are looking for (hope I'm not breaking any rules): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7JnEGSsjRE

[Mike Bell]

Thanks Richard- working at the moment! Maybe I should cancel work this afternoon and watch it now in case.....

[ScotsBrutesFan]

OK Folks ... MOD hat on

The interview was a Sky Exclusive and it is currently also being shown every couple hours today on the Sky F1 channel. As such they are well within their rights to have it pulled by Youtube, therefore I have to say, if the current link dies please don't post another one.

Mod Hat off ... it's a damn good interview, only wish they had an hour rather than 30 minutes. I could listen to Ross Brawn speak on F1 for hours without getting bored.

Things are a changing , but as he says it'll be as a result of a full review. Why 20 odd different passes, just a small thing but a detail that would probably save the event host thousands in terms of getting different passes made up. In a sport that counts in millions, it may not seem like a lot, but if that's a saving by the event host that can be passed onto the fans in term of pricing where the fans count in Hundreds all the better.

The analogy of turning a oil tanker lots of small nudges rather than one massive push is definitely the way to go. Get that one big push wrong and it will take twice or three times as long to correct, if you haven't done terminal damage.

I'd like to see a similar interview done in July or during the August Shut down, what's been achieved that is already in place. What's been agreed moving forward that can be publicly announced even if without detail, and where having spoken to the teams for 6 months or so does Brawn feel more work is required to get the teams pointing in the direction that he and Liberty Media want them to.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

if the current link dies please don't post another one.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Things are a changing , but as he says it'll be as a result of a full review. Why 20 odd different passes, just a small thing but a detail that would probably save the event host thousands in terms of getting different passes made up.

For a roughly 30ish minute interview there was a lot of good stuff. Another thing I found interesting is that Ross mentioned that apparently that type of interview would never have happened previously. That the fact they were talking on record was illustrative of the new openness!

To the comment about the quantity of unique pass types... I think a LARGE part of new ownership is when an outsider asks basic questions like "Why do we do X, Y and Z?" If the answer is "I don't know" then someone is asking the right questions. Introspection can be hard. Especially if the sport has been ruled with an iron fist in the past. The thought of questioning "why" has likely been beaten out of many who have been involved for years. "This is how it has always been done" becomes a common answer.

I also have to say... It was interesting to hear Ross talk about the polar opposite priorities for himself. That previously his job was to decimate the competition. That generating close racing is never something a competitive team will strive for. Now.. he is very much talking about how to make a more equal playing field and that the health and competitiveness of smaller teams is important.

Richard

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

For a roughly 30ish minute interview there was a lot of good stuff. Another thing I found interesting is that Ross mentioned that apparently that type of interview would never have happened previously. That the fact they were talking on record was illustrative of the new openness!

I think that was Ted who mentioned it, as they were filming from a first or second floor office space. On test days the media aren't allowed to film "from elevated positions". As such Sky wouldn't have been allowed to take their cameras up the stairs.

To the comment about the quantity of unique pass types... I think a LARGE part of new ownership is when an outsider asks basic questions like "Why do we do X, Y and Z?" If the answer is "I don't know" then someone is asking the right questions. Introspection can be hard. Especially if the sport has been ruled with an iron fist in the past. The thought of questioning "why" has likely been beaten out of many who have been involved for years. "This is how it has always been done" becomes a common answer.

The passes was just an example on my part, but it does prove the point. Thinking back to Bernie interviews, there are so many times where I've heard the response of "that's just the way we do things in F1" or something very similar, when the someone has dared to ask why?

I also have to say... It was interesting to hear Ross talk about the polar opposite priorities for himself. That previously his job was to decimate the competition. That generating close racing is never something a competitive team will strive for. Now.. he is very much talking about how to make a more equal playing field and that the health and competitiveness of smaller teams is important.

Richard

As he said himself, this new role is very much "Poacher turned gamekeeper", he knows how big teams work, so it's now up to him and others to break or at least adjust how they work to create a fairer more transparent landscape for both current smaller teams to move forward into, and if there are to be new teams, then they too will benefit.

This season may be debatable in terms of aero and progressiveness, but I can see better things in the future....I just hope Liberty have a big enough Bat to persuade the Big teams to go along with it.

[chillibowl]

noticed that the interview is on the SKY F1 website but the video is geoblocked.

obviously thats a pretty normal thing but to their credit they have highlighted some of the interesting bits in the text and i have to say i generally like his attitude towards creating more accessibility rather than continuing along with the system of exclusivity that has evolved over the years (number of passes for example).

i would hope that translates into new types of TV deals that better reflect how people today consume sports/media...particularity for those in more under serviced regions in the world (although its been pretty good in Canada the last several years).

really like the idea of non championship races to test out new formats. pretty common practice in other sports which use their preseasons or exhibition games to try out new equipment and mess around with formats and rules (tweaking overtime rules for example).

i wonder if coverage of such non championship races would fall under the existing broadcast TV deals or could this be an opportunity for Liberty to also test out new ways to film/broadcast events?

might be a good opportunity to build a dedicated F1 channel where subscriptions to race streams can be sold, access to exclusive and historic footage, and where interviews like this one could also be found...essentially a dedicated space for events/programming that falls outside the traditional broadcasting deals like what the NFL does with the NFL Network. basically a place where the league can push its own message as opposed to leaving the message and tone to be created by what the cable companies think it should be.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I think that was Ted who mentioned it, as they were filming from a first or second floor office space. On test days the media aren't allowed to film "from elevated positions". As such Sky wouldn't have been allowed to take their cameras up the stairs.

Sorry, yes, it was Ted who mentioned that. And I would have to rewatch to be sure, but I think to a degree Ross may not have really understood some of the crazy limitations placed upon the media. That part of the discussion (screens in the pits, not allowed on pit lane during qualifying, etc.) was good.

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

This season may be debatable in terms of aero and progressiveness, but I can see better things in the future....I just hope Liberty have a big enough Bat to persuade the Big teams to go along with it.

So it will also be interesting to see at what point the fan start to complain that change is not happening fast enough or in the direction they want (and I use "they" as a "unified block" loosely as if they all agree on what needs to be done because.. they don't! ).

So from the discussion...

* Manufactures are valued.
* Radical technical regulation changes that will trigger costly rework is not likely to happen anytime soon. Ross talked to the millions that teams just finished spending (still spending) to adjust to the 2017 regulations.
* No more knee jerk decisions. As I watched the interview, I thought to myself... everything is kneejerk decisions and then he used that exact word to describe how it is today!
* Power units effectively being largely unchanged until 2020.
* Whatever does happen post 2020 has a large number of "requirements". Keep manufactures happy with a direction that is relevant to them plus whatever the fans want. But Ross was clear that technology was still important and part of the DNA of F1 as well as important to the manufactures. So it is unlikely there will be reversion to what looks like older style engine specs (simple tightly regulated NA v8, v10, etc. setups)

To me... that does run counter to what a number of people here want. They want big changes and they want them now. I see things moving in the right direction, but I see some who have (which IMHO are unrealistic) expectations becoming disappointed.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

There were two things in particular that I took from the interview.

Firstly, that Brawn supports the view that F1 must be innovative and technologically sophisticated, but at the same time that technology must be relevant and understood by the public. One case in point, that he mentioned, is the new suspension systems that some of the teams have developed at huge cost, but which mean absolutely nothing to the average person who watches the sport. I don't understand what they are trying to do, and I would hazard a guess that many on here, if they are honest, don't either or know how they work.

He seemed to indicate that those sorts of things would have no place in the future. However, aerodynamic devices that you can see and understand the principle of their use, would be OK. But, not DRS!

Secondly, Brawn fully appreciates that the manufacturers have to be fully involved in the decision making process when they start drawing up the set of rules and regs for the next generation of power units. And he doesn't believe that that will involve large displacement blocks with normally aspirated fuel systems, because they have little relevance to most of the car manufacturers.

As an aside, not impressed with Kravitz's style and presentation, whilst Brawn was the consummate professional throughout.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

might be a good opportunity to build a dedicated F1 channel where subscriptions to race streams can be sold, access to exclusive and historic footage, and where interviews like this one could also be found...essentially a dedicated space for events/programming that falls outside the traditional broadcasting deals like what the NFL does with the NFL Network. basically a place where the league can push its own message as opposed to leaving the message and tone to be created by what the cable companies think it should be.

We already have that in the UK with Sky F1, but at US$470 p.a. with my cable provider, it is too expensive to justify for the limited value; a would be increase of just under 50% of what I currently pay for my bundle of phone, TV and broadband.

And from what I believe, take up has not been as good as Sky had hoped for, as many people, like me, can find far better ways of spending that sort of money than on watching boring races.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

We already have that in the UK with Sky F1, but at US$470 p.a. with my cable provider, it is too expensive to justify for the limited value; a would be increase of just under 50% of what I currently pay for my bundle of phone, TV and broadband.

And from what I believe, take up has not been as good as Sky had hoped for, as many people, like me, can find far better ways of spending that sort of money than on watching boring races.

There are ways of watching these boring races for free, not that I'm advocating or condoning this, it just happens to be possible.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

We already have that in the UK with Sky F1, but at US$470 p.a. with my cable provider, it is too expensive to justify for the limited value; a would be increase of just under 50% of what I currently pay for my bundle of phone, TV and broadband.

And from what I believe, take up has not been as good as Sky had hoped for, as many people, like me, can find far better ways of spending that sort of money than on watching boring races.

wasnt talking about local offerings but suggesting an opportunity for FOM to run their own channel with original content and meant for a global audience akin to what the other N.American sports do to supplement the coverage offered by our own local TV networks.

a place where FOM can control their own narrative that focuses on the sport as opposed to the 'whats the new controversy/clickbait headline today' narrative fostered by the SKY/FOX/Murdoch type properties.

granted the price point still may be too high/not worth it for many but i suspect (or hope) that more people will respond to a more balanced and objective approach vs the tendency for sensationalism we see now in the coverage.

[Inigo Montoya]

So how long until US rights to F1 move to Chase's buddies at Fox? I am sure they would do a wonderful job, like with their news network.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

So how long until US rights to F1 move to Chase's buddies at Fox? I am sure they would do a wonderful job, like with their news network.

Some people on the over the Atlantic may not realise this but, Liberty Media who now own F1, also own Cable TV company Virgin Media in the UK and Ireland...They are the biggest Platform competitor to Sky in the UK. 21CF are in the process of buying out Sky (that's Sky UK & I, Sky Italy and Sky Germany).

He may have buddies within Fox, in the UK they are the competition.

[wolfhound]

More good sense from Ross Brawn he wants to get rid of DRS and do something about shark fins.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128360

He also wants to change the process of why new rules are brought in.

[S griffin]

Ross really hasn't disappointed so far, he's come up with sensible solutions and reflects what a lot of the fans want. I hope he stays for a while

[Sodemo]

What we really need is cars that can follow each other with relative ease. I really dont think we need DRS.

There is great footage of a German GP where Schumacher is stuck behind Berger in about 1993-1994 and he is really close behind him, however he struggles to make a pass.

I think thats one thing you see from footage of 30 years back is that the cars can follow a lot closer than they can at the moment.

[JeremySmith]

If Ross Brawn has anything to do with it which of course he will, DRS will be gone fairly soon.. I believe next year it will not be on the race cars...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

If Ross Brawn has anything to do with it which of course he will, DRS will be gone fairly soon.. I believe next year it will not be on the race cars...

Jeremy, IMHO the comment about DRS being gone next year is the type of unrealistic optimism that has caused people to be disappointed in the 2017 cars!

Did you read the article above or watch the Sky interview with Ross? To me three things are clear. First he is simpatico with us in that his goals are our goals. Second he feels many of our current problems have roots in knee jerk decisions. That solutions need to be well researched and planned out to ensure success. Lastly changes need to be made in partnership with the teams. Part of that includes being aware of the cost of regulatory changes upon the teams. Especially in the current environment of various inequalities built into the system.

As to DRS, it is a solution to a problem, but removing DRS doesn't make the root problem go away. "Something" has to replace it. There are a slew of ideas for sure, but it sounds clear that Ross will need to build a well reasoned case for a solution AND the teams will need to be on board with the timing. My point being that any likely solution will require a costly redesign of the cars. Nobody will have the appetite to do that after the 2017 changes. I think Ross is taking the long view on how to fix problems. He explicitly says he will not rush a DRS replacement.

Richard

[chillibowl]

true. we should have more of a cautious optimism outlook rather than one of unrealistic optimism but can you really blame us?

there has been so much to be cynical about for so long!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

true. we should have more of a cautious optimism outlook rather than one of unrealistic optimism but can you really blame us?

there has been so much to be cynical about for so long!

Why would that be?

4 March 2017 – McLaren's Fernando Alonso believes the role of drivers will be "less important" in 2017, despite overhauled technical regulations, which has led to faster Formula 1 cars.

Attempts have been made in recent years to place control back in the hands of drivers, following complaints that technology was becoming too strong an influence in the sport.

Alonso, however, feels that the increased technical impact of the revised regulations, which he experienced during this week's first test, means drivers will still not be able to perform "miracles".

"I think with the technology we have now, with the aero packages we have now, with the power units we have now, I think it's even less important, the driver," Alonso commented

from: http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/alons...in-2017-165463