BANG!

[Liz]

I'm watching a demolition derby that the TV Guide calls the ALMS race from Laguna Seca. All racecraft and tactics seem to have been thrown overboard today in preference to adopting the Michael Schumacher Move, i.e. ram the other guy off the track even if it chops or spins your own car. I have never seen such banging and crashing since the last BTCC race I watched.

What is wrong with this bunch today?

[SL]

Still watching it on GB Eurosport, but I agree the carnage started from lap 1.

Does that Saleem look the biz though. I can see that winning Le Mans in class, might even have a shot at outright win !!
SL

[SL]

Any idea how much Audi paid those Porsche's to get in the way ???

Panoz and BMW had it alost wrapped up till then

[Racer X]

The Audi's have great drivers but in traffic they seem too agressive sometimes.

[Liz]

Everybody was too aggressive today. BMW seemed possessed by demons. Did those cars suddenly get a lot wider than they used to be? Is that why everyone tried to fit them through a knothole?

P.S. I agree about that Saleen. Nice looking car!

[Jared]

Yeah, the Saleen looks great, but it's outside the GTS rules. The car shouldn't be racing with the Vettes and Vipers.

Wild race, but another Audi domination, although the No. 42 BMW was only 11 sec. back at the finish (probably due to the incidents the Audis had). Please, someone build a car that will beat them next year.

[Heeltoe6]

Agreed, the Saleen has NO business in GTS, and is only going to drive away the real manufacturers out there who have to put so much development into their "stock" designs to make them competitive.


And GO AUDI!

[David]

Wasn't the FIA GT-1 class of a few years ago supposed to be for production GT cars? Didn't the Porsche GT-1 kill the class because the production minimum was too low [they only had to build one or so car(s) for the street]? The Saleen will kill the already puny, but currently exciting, GTS class.

Apparently they don't teach History at Marketing School.

David Palmeter

[TheShadow]

I find the thought that the Saleen is outside the rules and destined to kill the class an interesting topic. Why do you say that?

[Heeltoe6]

Saleen is already where the Corvettes are after 1 year of development. They don't have to work on the car that much cause they desinged it soley to race. But it would never fly if it was made to profit from commo street sales. However, GM and Chrysler are forced to take production cars, designed to sell of the street, and make them into good racecars. That takes a LOT of money and time. And when you allow someone basically to desing a racecar, and then maybe sell 30 to call it production based, the manufacturers have no incentive and tons of disincentives not to run thier much more expensive "stock" bodied cars. Because they'll be beat by a competitor with a fraction of a budget who isn't a competitor in the showroom. Meaning all you're left with are these exotic purpose-designed cars. But that will never fly, because you lose the manufacturer rivalry and interest will decline(especially if no other private purpose builders[ie like mclaren] enter the series] with no production factory competition, purpose built car makers will get tired of beating themselves and pullout, leaving no facotry backed efforts on any front, destroying a class which doesn't really have a good car count to start with.


You know what would've been cool. If Saleen could've raced some sort of Saleen mustang. I don't know how feasible ity would've been, the Mustang isn't really in the same class as the Vetter/Viper, more of a Camor/Firebird competitor, but isn't there a Saleen Mustang over in Grand-Am GTO, which is kinda the equivalent(a stretch I know) of GTS? That would've been perfect. It keeps it on the manufacturer level, but Saleen still gets to sell thier cars.

[TheShadow]

H&T6- Well thought out post. Thanks for your thinking on the topic.

On the other hand, the Viper and Corvette GTS cars are about as much production cars as a Trans Am car is.

In fact, it could be argued that the Saleen S-7R is more of a production car as it is very close to the road version.

If a small make like Saleen is to be required to build 25 cars to be homologated by the FIA,Grand Am and possibly the ACO,then should GM and Chrysler be made to build 25 SuperVettes and SuperVipers ???

They have both made one homologation special to satisfy the ACO. The fact that they did not present a stock Vette or Viper at that time tells one that the GTS cars from both makes are far from "production".

While your observation that factory teams could be driven away is a valid one, the fact is that Oreca have already decided not to race in GTS anymore and GM will likely run a limited schedule next year. These things were decided prior to the S-7R being introduced.

I think that factory built supercars like the Porsche GTS,Ferrari F-60GT or Bugatti GT are more likely to be seen if these Corvettes and Vipers are not there.

As a man from Michelotto said to me on a plane from Daytona, "why would Ferrari want to race the F-50GT against cars the public see as $40,000 or $60,000 thousand dollar cars?" I was once again disappointed that Ferrari were not going to race the F-50GT, but I knew that this guy was right.

If companies want to race true volume produced cars they can do so. It's called the GT class.

The Saleen is legal and cost no more to buy or run than a GTS Viper or Vette. I think it is a great addition to the class. I hope we see more cars like it.

[Liz]

I don't know if they do it now, but in 1964 NASCAR used to do the same thing - they would produce 30 "stock" production models of their racing cars 'for sale to the public' - but just try to get one. We had a 1964 Ford Galaxie 500 that was one of those production models (Dad leaned on someone to get it) and they were as far from a stock Galaxie as the East is from the West.

I don't care, personally, if I can buy a Saleen or not. I just like to see them race.

[Valve Bounce]

I just watched the race on TV that Alan McNish won, I don't know where. The BMW did a backward summersalt and came down on its wheels. There is something dreadfully wrong with the aerodynamics of these prototype sports cars. As soon as any air gets under the cars, the aerodynamic principles seem to be drastically alterred, the cars act like a wing, and as the driver said, his visor got sucked up as the car went up. This think happened to the two MB cars at Le Mans last year. Why can't we have open wheelers in this class? Would that stop the cars from taking off?? And having the GT cars in the same race is absolutely crazy - the speed differential is so great that accidents are caused all the time. Poor old man Paul Neuwman - the guy is 75 and he gets punted of like a ping pong ball. That's enough to turn anyone's hair grey, if he had any left!!

[Racer X]

VB that was at the Petit LeMans. The BMW was following the Olive Garden lola going over the hill on the back straight. The lola pulled over in his way because of traffic and tool the downforce off of the BMW as he went over the creast of the hill. Here's more info http://www.supersportscarworld.com/tech/bmwflip.htm and heres video.
http://the16v.com/media/video/plm.htm

[BMWRacerITS]

Valve Bounce-

The traffic is part of endurance racing. You either like it or you don't. But you definitely can't run different classes. How do you plan to run two seperate 24 hour events?

And open-wheeled cars?? Are you kidding?! The speed differential would be even greater (lighter cars, less drag, more downforce) and it simply wouldn't be sportscar racing! Besides, have you compared the size of an F1 car to the size of a Viper GT car?!? If the two were to get into a wreck, the open wheel car would lose, and lose BAD. It would be extremely dangerous to race open wheels and sportscars on the same track. The only place I have ever seen this done is in Vintage racing, where the speeds aren't too fast.

When you push the limit with car design, you've got to expect harsher consequences when the driver exceeds the car's limits. The driver's know this. Heck, its a true testament to the designers that in all of these incidents (P-Car GT1 at 1998 Petit, Mercedes at 1999 LeMans, and BMW at 2000 Petit) in the past few years, no one has been seriously hurt.