Yellows v Reds

[redshoes]

Are hazard boards available at every flag post or just selected ones? The reason I ask is that at the start of every race/session greens are displayed at every post to help the drivers identify where the flag posts are. Is the same necessarily true of hazard boards?

If the hazard board is there purely as a CYA then to take the Oulton Park example pictured earlier, does it actually matter if Bob say the board or not. The point is he did see and was aware of the hazard that the board was trying to draw his attention to.

[Grandslammer]

All flag posts are equipped with HBs,either fixed or mobile,(exception being a couple of repeater points,I can think of ).
The Hazard Boards at Combe can sometimes become hazards themselves,being free standing .

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I'm sure they are in the blue book, but practically does that get read cover to cover? Probably not.

On a related point, are all changes to it separately publicised? I can't remember exactly when hazard boards were introduced, but they are relatively recent.

OK, Ian relatively depends on how long we have all being doing this but does the inclusion of the "Hazard area board" in the 1994 Blue book not suggest that most drivers have little excuse for not knowing about it? Eleven years.

Regards

Jim

[Woolley]

The Hazard Boards is a bit of a side issue to the discussion and are diverting us off what is a very interesting thread - very good question in the first place, Bob.

Basically they are there to be seen to be doing something and the design is in the blue book. I'm not really surprised or concerned that they're rarely seen, because they don't really mean much. IIRC, the incident that led to their introduction resulted from a competitor who hit a car that was in a relatively straight on position in the gravel trap and it took him 2 or 3 laps before he hit it. It was hardly difficult to see. The court case was brought on the basis that he wasn't warned about the big saloon car straight in front of him, and bizarrely it wasn't laughed out of court. Don't worry about them. When was the last time you read the label on the underside of an electrical plug before you fitted it? Precisely. That's all they do.

Back to flags in qualifying sessions, if we may, and what is the best solution for all concerned?

I don't honestly know, as I've never been on a circuit, but I'd make two suggestions.

1) This is one of those situations where drivers marshalling can help the marshals by telling us what they'd hope to happen under those circumstances.

2) Why not get some drivers to a flag training day and discuss it? Face to face, it could be a very enlightening debate.

[goforit500]

I'd be up for that Woolley - Good suggestion...

[Woolley]

You'll need to contact BMMC or one of the circuits over training days, of course - nothing to do with me!

[Bob Pearson]

I fancy most drivers would feel a bit awkward regarding inviting themselves to a marshals training day. Rather like claiming to be the expert. I feel that there is plenty for us all to learn by joining in these discussions.

[EvilPumpkin]

I think most marshals would be delighted to have drivers along on training. It's a great opportunity for drivers to learn how we do things and for us to ask questions about how drivers perceive things.

[Woolley]

Very true. One of the best sessions I've ever been to was when Willem Toet talked us through his neck-breaking incident and rescue from his point of view. We all said how much we'd learned from that.

For flag training it would be very useful. We always talk about communicating with the drivers, but we don't actually know what they're receiving, only what we're sending. Even something like going slowly around the circuit in a road car showing us where you're looking and what you see or don't see would be a help.

[Flagman]

We have been using tame (or at least semi-tame) drivers in the flag marshal training sessions at Oulton Park for a large number of years - it helps that two of our flag marshals are also active drivers.

'Even something like going slowly around the circuit in a road car showing us where you're looking and what you see or don't see would be a help.'

I can remember several years ago we organised some drivers do this - though trying to get Chris Maries to drive slowly is not an easy task - never would have believed a Rover 214 'oil burner' could go round Island quite that quick with four up - all the time Chris giving a running commentary of what the driver is looking at, with appropriate hand gestures thrown in...

[Gordon Knight]

Hey Flagman...in your lurid description of CM's demo in his oil burner you forgot
to mention something...the screams of abject terror from the passengers...me included.

[goforit500]

I'll happily take a few folks round in me knackered old Galaxy wiv dodgy track rod ends....

Wots the lap record for that class at Oulton ?? Mind you, with my record there we'd prpbably only get as far as Fosters.....

[Bob Pearson]

it sounds like the intended focus of attention of this demo may have got a bit lost.

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by goforit500

BTW - I can't ever recall seeing a hazard board in 15+ years of racing....

When the Hazard Board was introduced in the early 90s, it was displayed, along with the green flag, on the first lap of qualifying / green flag lap. This idea was discontinued after 1-2 years.

Perhaps we should have a re-think???

[goforit500]

Yaeh, Yeah.....Sorry Bob - Got carried away there

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by flying muppet

When the Hazard Board was introduced in the early 90s, it was displayed, along with the green flag, on the first lap of qualifying / green flag lap. This idea was discontinued after 1-2 years.

Perhaps we should have a re-think???

Can't see a lot of point, even assuming you have sufficient flaggies to do so (wouldn't want to show both green and hazard on a windy day on my own). It's not really the point of showing a flag on the first laps which is just to indicate the positions of the flag points.