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Old 28 May 2013, 20:37 (Ref:3254675)   #1
FastDB2s
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FastDB2s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wearing an open face helmet in an open racecar

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Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
Although TBQH I dont think you should wear an O/F in an open car but thats a discussion for another thread.
Why don't you think its a good idea to use an open face helmet in an open 2 seat racecar.

Last edited by FastDB2s; 28 May 2013 at 20:58. Reason: spelling
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Old 28 May 2013, 22:56 (Ref:3254746)   #2
midgetman
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I'm not a fan - through first hand experience and testimony

1. there are other people here who have had close encounters of the debris kind, be it rubber or stones, hitting them on the visor or the chin bar of a full face helmet. This was in normal racing and quite separate from an accident of any kind. For myself, I was out cycling recently and I hit a bee which stung me. I was doing about 40nph and it blooming' hurt, imagine if I had been doing 80mph?

2. My own experience a few years back when someone went into a gravel trap in front of me, threw up atones and broke the windscreen. Now I know I was in a closed car, but the impact point was in line with my chin which was quite sobering. It was a ruddy great stone and would really have hurt, it was a big impact. If it had hit the visor, that's bad enough but that is several inches away from my eye. I'm not sure how I'd react to it hitting a goggle that is basically ON my eye

3. There are many films on YouTube of how the driver's head moves forwards in a crash as the belts stretch and neck extends. It is not unknown for a driver's face to hit the steering wheel. The best video is one promoting the HANS device, which from that POV makes a great deal of sense

4. I don't really like open faced helmets in a closed car either. In an accident there can be an awful amount of debris flying around which could cut or damage your face. This was first bought to my attention many years ago by "Doc" Enderby (remember him?) who crashed his Karmann Ghia special saloon and his subsequent article about motor sport safety had a formative effect on me

Disclaimer
These are my personal views and prejudices, and not those of racewear.co.uk. Open faced helmets are perfectly legal and can be used in MSA and international racing at our level, it's just that I wouldn't.

Does that help?

Max
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Old 28 May 2013, 23:34 (Ref:3254760)   #3
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I too had a bumblebee hit me in the face whist riding my motorbike at 90mph with an open face helmet many moons ago that caused a massive bruise.
I also had a pheasant go through my windscreen of my road car ( old shatter type) that broke the rear view mirror off and hit me in the face, so anything can happen.
Look what happened to Massa when he got hit by a spring not so long ago and no doubt he was wearing the best full face at the time !
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Old 29 May 2013, 00:51 (Ref:3254775)   #4
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I've cleared up the results of a formula car who had a bee hit him while wearing a full face helmet but with the visor open a little to help with misting. I've also seen the results of chin/steering wheel interface. Frankly, after 25 years marshalling, if I started driving I wouldn't consider an open helmet at all, never mind in an open car with all manner of things that can hit you. You're spending a large chunk of money to protect your head, why compromise when you could protect the rest of your face as well?
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Old 29 May 2013, 06:20 (Ref:3254820)   #5
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Lola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I was once hit in the face by a spanner exiting the car in front on the way out of Graham Hill Bend at Brands hatch. Smashed the pivot kit off. Had to drive the rest of the race one handed as i was having to hold what was left of the helmet visor in place along the straights.
Although open face helmets look good after this only a full face will do.
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Old 29 May 2013, 08:13 (Ref:3254841)   #6
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People think they would be "safe" in a saloon. Had an incident where a Lotus Elan rolled and turned itself into a ball of tinfoil. As the "first on scene" marshal I can tell you you DO NOT want to be the one that has to look in an open face helmet that's come flying out an incident on its own.
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Old 29 May 2013, 08:55 (Ref:3254863)   #7
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The only time that I wore goggles was with a full face helmet when I was motocrossing, as you can have layers of tear offs on them and that is standard wear now for that sport.
I would have thought it was only a matter of time that open face helmets were outlawed in motorsport IMHO
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Old 29 May 2013, 09:14 (Ref:3254868)   #8
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Who's to say whether or not Massa would have escaped such a nasty injury IF he had been wearing an open face?Had the FF been a little narrower,he may not have been hit by that spring.
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Old 29 May 2013, 10:31 (Ref:3254911)   #9
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I wish I was wearing an openface when I puked up my breakfast in my fullface version at Rockingham! Seriously though full face for me everytime.
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Old 29 May 2013, 10:32 (Ref:3254912)   #10
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I wish I was wearing an openface when I puked up my breakfast in my fullface version at Rockingham!
OVERSHARE!
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Old 29 May 2013, 23:40 (Ref:3255228)   #11
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Well, just for the sake of making this a slightly less one sided crusade against open face helmets....

When I first started racing open cars I used a Arai GP Jet open face with goggles and a standard balaclava. I loved it. The feeling of speed, the wind noise, the smells are all more exciting, more involving that being sealed away in the sterile environment of a closed face helmet. It's exactly like the difference between driving an open car or a closed car. If you were that worried about safety and something hitting you, then why would you ever drive an open car in the first place? And if you're of the opinion that open face helmets aren't safe, then I can't see how you could justify open cars either.

And yes I have had stuff hit me in the face, and it hurts. So what, running into a barrier hurts more, but we wouldn't stop racing just because it might happen. I don't think you should criticise unless you've tried it. I have and know that if the car in front runs over some gravel spilled from a trap, and you're in an open car with an open helmet.... well you hunker down a bit and dip your peak a bit. It isn't rocket science.

If you want to go on a safety witch hunt, then try starting with making the historic racers out there fit full roll cages and 6-point harnesses. After all, it was the number of people killed driving in those things that lead to all the safety rules we have now.

Rant over...

Sorry.
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Old 30 May 2013, 07:49 (Ref:3255300)   #12
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I'm not criticising I'm just pointing out what can and what has happened in my case.
We have all done silly things including riding motorbikes without a helmet before they were made compulsory and at the time didn't even think about it !
It's a free world (or was) and if people want to do anything lawful then I wouldn't stand in their way
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Old 30 May 2013, 08:30 (Ref:3255309)   #13
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It's a free world (or was) and if people want to do anything lawful then I wouldn't stand in their way



But sadly it gets a bit more complicated when people exercise their lawful right to campaign against your lawful activity.

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Old 30 May 2013, 09:36 (Ref:3255342)   #14
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Oh I agree, this is my personal view and my personal view only. Open face helmets are fully legal and I will defend your right to wear them. I'm just outlining the reasons I won't.

I wear an open face helmet in a saloon car when I'm teaching, and it just feels so wrong. I've only ever worn f/f otherwise from when I was 16 and riding my Fizzie.

re your points about stones etc, my view is that it's a likely and preventable injury and I can take reasonable steps to stop it happening without inconveniencing me or my wallet. Cost/benefit - cost is comparatively low, probability of it protecting me is high therefore worth the expenditure
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Old 30 May 2013, 09:53 (Ref:3255354)   #15
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Just to be more contraversial, what do people think of wearing a scarf over your face, under your open face helmet?
A la Graham Hill: http://www.500race.org/Men/Hill.htm
Who cares if it does provide protection against bees, small stones etc?
The look is just so 'chocks away, tally ho' !

Plus balaclava, or instead of?

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