How Long Until Richo is Under the Pump?

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

When questioned about why they had left Perkins at the end of 05 only take up the title sponsorship at FPR 12 months later, Castrol stated that they wanted to concentrate their sponsorship on factory teams.

Yer....wasn't it a global deal to secure supply of fuel and lubricants at all Ford factories?

WRC, Supercars....not sure what else.

[GTRMagic]

Richo with Kim Watkins..

[Senna05]

All driving qualities aside here, the more I see a driver that came through in the 90's (and definitely the 80's), I have to say that I wonder if the cars are getting further and further away from how they used to behave and be set up.

I've stated a million times that I felt that Skaife, Seton and Bowe really struggled post Blueprint (obviously, the old Gp A boys had a totally different driving style) and I've seen some guys come through from the 90's strugle with the VE and FG.

The arguement is of course that a top notch driver can jump into anything and be quick, and I've got no comeback for that. But the more I think about it, I have to ask if whats happening is a combination of -

*Form slowly diminishing in age
*Departure in car architecture from preference
*Family pressures (or considerations)

To be honest, it's not just the Richo's and Skaife's of the world who have struggled in top cars.

As I dont have an answer, of course, this was just for consideration.

[carbontub]

FPR should be looking at Coulthard anyway i would of thought. Frosty and Fabian would be a brilliant young combo IMHO.

[Pro Racer]

yeah a Frosty/Fabian combo is young and dangerous (for the opersition).

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by Senna05

All driving qualities aside here, the more I see a driver that came through in the 90's (and definitely the 80's), I have to say that I wonder if the cars are getting further and further away from how they used to behave and be set up.

I've stated a million times that I felt that Skaife, Seton and Bowe really struggled post Blueprint (obviously, the old Gp A boys had a totally different driving style) and I've seen some guys come through from the 90's strugle with the VE and FG.

The arguement is of course that a top notch driver can jump into anything and be quick, and I've got no comeback for that. But the more I think about it, I have to ask if whats happening is a combination of -

*Form slowly diminishing in age
*Departure in car architecture from preference
*Family pressures (or considerations)

To be honest, it's not just the Richo's and Skaife's of the world who have struggled in top cars.

As I dont have an answer, of course, this was just for consideration.

I agree with your views , the older guys seem to struggle a bit in the current formula and look a bit amateurish compared to the new guys , perhaps in the near future "early thirties" is about the border line of competitiveness for the V8s drivers who may have a shot of winning anything , it would make for some pretty expensive "seat warmers" , or perhaps a seniors series where the oldies race stock standard cars .

[Woolley]

Does this coincide with modern tyre technology? I have a theory that racing everywhere has diminished with the newer tyres. The way to be quick used to be (to a certain extent) to exceed the natural limits and hang on to what you've got, giving a premium to car control. Get it right, you're quick, get it wrong you make a mistake, maybe lose a place or a wheel...

Now you have to drive within a certain performance window and hone the setup to make the best of that window. Overuse the tyres and they degrade and you're finished. Underuse them and they get cold and you're finished. Which means everyone is running at pretty much the same pace because you can't push that bit harder without destroying the rubber. So now, get a corner wrong and you lose a small amount because you weren't so close to the ragged edge anyway. The premium has moved to commitment into the corner instead of control out of it.

Younger drivers have grown up with that mindset, and while precision is still important in a racing driver, it's a different kind of precision. Watch film of Fangio, hanging the tail out and yet with the inside front just kissing the apex, and compare with modern drivers taking in loads of speed but missing the apex by up to a couple of feet at no cost. Is it any wonder you can't overtake anymore? Or that it's harder for an earlier generation of drivers to remain fully competitive? You used to get better with age as experience and guile were more important than the size of your gonads. Now it's the opposite.

[Tourer]

There is a lot of truth in what you're saying Woolley but I don't think that is would necessarily impact guys in the 30's more than guys in their 20's. Radial race tyres have been around for quite some time now after all. For sure you need to drive "within" the tyre window more than is needed with a cross ply but radials are much more predictable in their behavior and are the technology that the tyre companies want as that is what we drive on as road tyres.

To my mind, the question of being competitive in a close fought series once a driver hits 30's has always been there. There are many examples in a whole variety of categories where the young, "fear nothing" guys have a bit of an edge over the guy in his 30's with a nice house, loving wife, kids etc. There are plenty of examples in other sports too.

What motor racing doesn't generally do as well as other sports is manage this process in the athlete. Pretty rare to see coaches, trainers, sports psychologists in team garages. In this case, Richo is one member of a team and the team management should be working with all their team members to develop them.

There was a time (back in his FF and super tourer days in particular) that Richo was top shelf - very aggressive, great skills and all that. The team should be working on a way to get him back to that as the talent certainly lies within.

[Senna05]

I think modern downforce plays against the tyres as well, Woolley. Not only Fangio, but watch older footage from any series, Tin Tops or Open Wheel. Up until wings and bootlid spoilers came in, there was alot of drivers able to extract alot more from their aging tyres.

I can remember that there was alot of fuss made about Paul Wheel and Mark Skaife seeing a "Sports Psychologist" in the past years, with the spin being from 10/7 that they had lost their mental edge. I think that this issue of "coaching" is a very good one - Drivers receive alot of coaching in their younger years, but it seems to drop off once they hit the upper tiers. I would assume that even guys in the Shannon's competitions receive some, be it off their mates in the pits manning the crew, their parents who are there to help, etc etc.

There's guys who hit that dreaded mid-30's who just seem to cope better, and possibly the issues with Richo are part of all the problems mentioned in here.Heck, despite still winning, in comparison to his younger teamate, like Richo/Frosty, Lowndes seems to not be as quick or lucky as Jamie....

Once again, no answers... just more questions!!!

PS - Mac, excellent thread. I think this has been one of the more constructive threads for some time!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Senna05

I think modern downforce plays against the tyres as well, Woolley. Not only Fangio, but watch older footage from any series, Tin Tops or Open Wheel. Up until wings and bootlid spoilers came in, there was alot of drivers able to extract alot more from their aging tyres.

I can remember that there was alot of fuss made about Paul Wheel and Mark Skaife seeing a "Sports Psychologist" in the past years, with the spin being from 10/7 that they had lost their mental edge. I think that this issue of "coaching" is a very good one - Drivers receive alot of coaching in their younger years, but it seems to drop off once they hit the upper tiers. I would assume that even guys in the Shannon's competitions receive some, be it off their mates in the pits manning the crew, their parents who are there to help, etc etc.

There's guys who hit that dreaded mid-30's who just seem to cope better, and possibly the issues with Richo are part of all the problems mentioned in here.Heck, despite still winning, in comparison to his younger teamate, like Richo/Frosty, Lowndes seems to not be as quick or lucky as Jamie....

Once again, no answers... just more questions!!!

PS - Mac, excellent thread. I think this has been one of the more constructive threads for some time!

I'm big on coaching and I use it myself all the time. Even when working I have others I work with watch my driving, my instruction and even my public speaking. I think it's good to have someone "on the outside" to observe. Always looking to improve.

I think it's not so much the late 90's generation has gotten too old, I think it is more of the sport is more competitive now with cars being more competitive and I think overall more competition with drivers. If you look at someone like Lowndes in the mid 90's, he was with pretty much the only "factory" team and probably one of the best funded. In addition the depth of drivers I don't think was there compared to now, hence it was easier to score championships. Is he any worse of a driver now? No probably not, might even be better. Same with Steven Richards. It's just the game has been raised and they'll have to find ways to meet that standard.

[peckstar]

it may be just a coincidence, but Jamies is single (is that still true) Jamie is winning the championship and won last year. is it a coincidence

[Senna05]

Peckstar, I was about to argue that point with Skaife in 00/01/02, and Rusty in 05, but even comparing today with 05, let alone 00-02, is hard to do.

Even in 05, there were probably only 4 or 6 cars you would really want to have around you. Now, you'd really want a WP Holden or 888 Ford, and be happy with a FPR Ford and GRM Commodore . The establishments around them are more professional than even in 05 and the competition is alot tougher - so I wont' go down the path I was.

I'd imagine dealing with the newer age corporate pressures, team functions and then having a family would not be all that easy. Perhaps a single lad does have it slightly easier in terms of focus?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by peckstar

it may be just a coincidence, but Jamies is single (is that still true) Jamie is winning the championship and won last year. is it a coincidence

No I don't think it is.

Imagine being married to some screaming meemie who is spending all your money and then having to focus on driving 10/10ths.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

In addition the depth of drivers I don't think was there compared to now, hence it was easier to score championships.

I am not sure it would have been any easier.

Perhaps there were only 15-20 professional cars, but still as easy to end up in 12th back then as 24th now... and no closer to the championship I reckon.

[petebendon]

richo is under the pump now.......fpr have problem hrt had with skaife last year -- good machine crap finishing. predict 1 more year for richo jr

[F J Nedos]

Maybe just give all of the cars rock hard tyres that dont degrade one bit. Reduce downforce. Then we'd see some real car control, rear end hanging out (like brock in '91 bathurst qualifying).

That would be like them driving in the wet - and we all know that the wet is a good leveller/opportunity for driver skill to shine rather than mechanical and aerodynamic grip.