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Old 6 Feb 2018, 10:45 (Ref:3798955)   #301
Peter Mallett
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Yes I can see that for Group A things are easier since it was used seamlessly all over the world. Unlike Group 1.5 or Francorchamps regs.
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Old 6 Feb 2018, 15:12 (Ref:3799012)   #302
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In France, probably as a test, the ex-Production cars homologated in Grp1 between '76 and '81 are accepted with no HTP. Unfortunately, the year of reference is '81 which, as far as I can remember, was not the best. But OK, its a good move forward I presume.
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Old 7 Feb 2018, 09:55 (Ref:3799280)   #303
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For a moment, I hoped that both MSA and FFSA could find an agreement around the Grp 1,5 regs to be applied in our two countries. Could it be the case one day or another or is there a law provision restricting this kind of thing? English rules seemed good enough not to dig up french Production ones.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 07:47 (Ref:3799799)   #304
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Morning.

I wonder if you could help clarify for me, as I am somewhat confused with how to interpret all of this.

I understand that if a car is prepared to say 1978 Group 1 specification and obtains an HTP to this specification, it cannot then add parts homologated thereafter and maintain a valid HTP. That is understood.

What if a car originally built and prepared in 1974 to Group 1 spec, is subsequently upgraded in period with homologated parts to 1977/1978 specification and is then retired from racing. Can that car now apply developed parts (some homologated, some not) that were known to have been used on other cars of the same model that ran up to 1981? i.e. can that original car apply Group 1B/BSCC parts that other cars of the same model were known to have run in 1981 and then apply for a new HTP, whilst maintaining its 1977/1978 livery? Or, does the car have to lose its livery and use one from 1981 and become a visual replica of a 1981 car?
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 08:13 (Ref:3799802)   #305
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I believe the requirement is to run the car as it was in period thus if it is a 1976 car then it can't run 1981 parts that were homolgated subsequent to its years of competition.

It's a dilemma though because theoretically you may be able to run anything that was homologated in period. The difficulty is that you have to show that those parts were actually installed on the car, or the car that you are replicating, in question.

This is what I had to do for the Rover.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 12:41 (Ref:3799877)   #306
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The already muddy waters are further discoloured by the Gp1B / BSCC special period regulations! My take is that Peter is correct, and as he has jumped through the hoops with his own car, knows a lot more than me....

One question though- If the car you have is a period racer with proven history, is it not better to keep it as originally raced?
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 12:44 (Ref:3799882)   #307
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The already muddy waters are further discoloured by the Gp1B / BSCC special period regulations! My take is that Peter is correct, and as he has jumped through the hoops with his own car, knows a lot more than me....

One question though- If the car you have is a period racer with proven history, is it not better to keep it as originally raced?
Indeed on both counts.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 15:44 (Ref:3799969)   #308
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The last question was: can that original car apply Group 1B/BSCC parts that other cars of the same model were known to have run in 1981 and then apply for a new HTP, whilst maintaining its 1977/1978 livery? Or, does the car have to lose its livery and use one from 1981 and become a visual replica of a 1981 car?
Then if Anta35 wants to build an ultimate weapon, should he change the livery to adapt the color scheme to the last homologation year?
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 16:20 (Ref:3799983)   #309
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Yes but then it becomes a replica.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 17:17 (Ref:3800005)   #310
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Indeed.
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Old 10 Feb 2018, 07:17 (Ref:3800183)   #311
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Thank you all for your input on this. You have confirmed what I had thought.

Look forward to seeing how Goodwood get their heads around this in March.

Lots of older liveried cars are running younger homologated/BSCC parts than their liveries would allow if the HTPs are utilised and enforced correctly.

For example, there is a replica of a 1974 Group 1 car running at Goodwood and as such it should have twin SU carbs, not Weber 48s (as homologated for 76/77, let alone the Weber 50s it has been using), it should have standard thin unvented front discs for brakes (not the vented ones it has), the tubular exhaust it has should be replaced for cast iron manifold etc etc...

Therefore for this car to maintain it competitiveness it will have to find a livery from 1981/82 to copy to get the most advantageous set of parts applicable for its HTP. Either that or it accepts it will be woefully slow, keeps its 1974 livery, removes all of the post 1974 parts and doesn’t get invited back again.

Doesn’t this mean that eventually everyone will be driving around in replicas of the same car eventually in order to maintain the most competitive car?
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Old 10 Feb 2018, 07:24 (Ref:3800185)   #312
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Therefore for this car to maintain it competitiveness it will have to find a livery from 1981/82 to copy to get the most advantageous set of parts applicable for its HTP. Either that or it accepts it will be woefully slow, keeps its 1974 livery, removes all of the post 1974 parts and doesn’t get invited back again.

Doesn’t this mean that eventually everyone will be driving around in replicas of the same car eventually in order to maintain the most competitive car?
Ah, we're talking about the Members Meeting. Personally I'd rather keep the car correct, be slow, and not be invited back again. There's more to life than one race at Goodwood....... (I did, it was, and I wasn't... )
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