The new GTx class structure 2009-

[JAG]

According to DSC it does indeed look as though GT1 and GT2 will be scrapped in FIA GT by 2009, we'll have to see what the ACO's reaction is.

Basically GT1 will be for 5.5l+ cars with 600-650bhp weighing 1250-1300kg.

Many standadised parts to keep costs down.

We could be looking at a DBRS9 with GT1 spec engine, cars closer in spirit to the original BPR F40GTE's and McLaren F1 GTR's.

The FIA did mention they still wish to see a World Championship with ONLY new generation GT1 cars, but I thinks that's should be left to one side for the time being, sick of hearing about it TBH.

Let's just get 5-6 manufactuers into GT1 with affordable customer cars.

[paul-collins]

Although I see a glimmer of merit in the Ratel proposal, I have to ask - 5.5? That seems inordinately large to me.

[Adam43]

I'd allow any size.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

According to DSC it does indeed look as though GT1 and GT2 will be scrapped in FIA GT by 2009, we'll have to see what the ACO's reaction is.

Basically GT1 will be for 5.5l+ cars with 600-650bhp weighing 1250-1300kg.

Many standadised parts to keep costs down.

( snip)

Let's just get 5-6 manufactuers into GT1 with affordable customer cars.

I think that maybe the reason for the 5.5 L for GT1. More manufacutres already make engines that size or larger.

[Le Vieux]

I'm aware that this thread has ranged far and wide from its original title. If a moderator thinks a new thread on the future regulations needs to be started.....

The speed differential "objection" is surely a red herring. The ACO have repeatedly stated that they want to maintain the differential of the current four classes. As has already been hinted at in a previous post, if you can't cope with it, stay away from LM.

Surely, the major problem for the current GT1 is solely the cost? Why should any manufacturer spend large sums of money only to win the "third" class?

GTs (whether GT1, 2, or any other name) have a direct lineage back to the roots of LM, even if they did almost disappear in the mid eighties. In my opinion, it would detract from LM if production-based cars were to be legislated out of the race.

Why not open up the categories, so that, for example, a DBR9-based car was in with a chance of outright victory? Surely this would appeal to Prodrive, GM, Ferrari, Porsche et al. The costs would increase over the current cost of GT1, but the rewards would be that much greater. There's a precedent from the Seventies, when we saw both 935s and 936s racing for outright victory. The possibility of an Audi R12 competing directly against an Aston DBR11 in 2010 is mouthwatering.

There could still be a continuation of the current GT classes - call them GT 1,2,3,4, whatever - but loosely based on the currect GT2 and GT3. Relatively affordable, and if modifications were kept to a minimum, then more manufacturers would be attracted, particularly if a entry to LM was guaranteed, rather than be at the whim of the ACO. We may bemoan the lack of variety, but did the ACO have to choose principally Ferraris and Porsches, when TVRs and Morgans, for example, could have had entries?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Although I see a glimmer of merit in the Ratel proposal, I have to ask - 5.5? That seems inordinately large to me.

Are there any current or potential GT1 cars under 5.5l?

[Francesco]

Koenigsegg is said to have a Ford 5000cc... that's what i know... anybody has different infos?

[broadrun96]

Isn't the Vette running a 7 or 7.1 and the AM running something in the neighborhood of 6.2?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Francesco

Koenigsegg is said to have a Ford 5000cc... that's what i know... anybody has different infos?

Indeed, but I dont think it will be any problem building and replaicng it with a 5.5 litre unit.

With those new proposed rules, will they allow the current GT1 cars to be "easily" modified to fit under the new rules, and still be competetive? Or will they deliberately make the new rules so different the manufacturers are forced to design a compleatly new car just cause they dont want "old" cars compeating for race wins?

[Purist]

The Koenigsegg CCGT is running a 5.0-litre V8. The Aston Martin DBR9, Lamborghini Murcielago R-GT, and Maserati MC12 all run 6.0-litre V12s. The Ferrari 550 and 575 GTC run 5.5-litre and 5.75-litre V12s respectively. The Corvette C6.R and Saleen S7R both run 7.0-litre V8s. The Pagani Zonda uses a 7.3-litre V12, and the current generation Viper uses an 8.2-litre V10.

I do have to wonder how the Koenigsegg is cleared to run, as the production car uses a twin-supercharged, 4.7-litre V8 (giving 800-1000hp).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

Indeed, but I dont think it will be any problem building and replaicng it with a 5.5 litre unit.

With those new proposed rules, will they allow the current GT1 cars to be "easily" modified to fit under the new rules, and still be competetive? Or will they deliberately make the new rules so different the manufacturers are forced to design a compleatly new car just cause they dont want "old" cars compeating for race wins?

I believe 2008 is the last year for the 'old' GT1/GT2 cars, full stop.

The new cars will be a variation of current GT3's, so all manufactuers already have a suitable base car, two in the case of Lamborghini.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by JAG

I believe 2008 is the last year for the 'old' GT1/GT2 cars, full stop.

The new cars will be a variation of current GT3's, so all manufactuers already have a suitable base car, two in the case of Lamborghini.

2008 being the last year is new rules are adopted?
And then if it is, the big differences would then be lower electronics/telemetry info and back to steel brakes? In the case of almost all the current GT1s decreased engine size from even the street cars? Anything in the rules about turbo size equivalency formula?

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by JAG

I believe 2008 is the last year for the 'old' GT1/GT2 cars, full stop.

The new cars will be a variation of current GT3's, so all manufactuers already have a suitable base car, two in the case of Lamborghini.

Well, exept Porsche? The 997 GT3 Cup will be ruled out then. And no way they'll race the Carrera GT, so whats the new rules for the new GT2 class? Will there even be one? Maybe they roll the Cayenne TurboS out for GT1 and do just like K'segg, take away the Turbo and increase it from 4.5 to 5.5 litre...

What really does that article say in DSC? Sounds very foggy to me. What are those standadised parts? Gearbox and Diff?

I'd also like to know about the Turbos, will they rule them out compleatly now?

[The359]

I assume that cars with turbo engines would have a smaller displacement allowed to them, like the 911 GT2s that used to run in GT1 a few years ago.

I think Porsche could easily start producing a GT2-RSR or something of that sort by 2009.

The same might apply to Jaguar, which has a Supercharged 4.2L V8 in the production car. I'm not sure if the GT3 car is supercharged or not.

[AU N EGL]

Does any one have the EXACT rulling? or is this still speculation?

If they do could they please post the rule changes, or a public link non-subscription

[Adam43]

At this point these are (strong) suggestions from Ratel for continuing and upcoming discussions. However for the FIA championship things need to progress because the 2009 rules must be agreed before 2008.

[pederb]

I think most are on vacation so it could be speculations and suggestions

[Jonerz]

The ACO, SRO and FIA need to get their heads out of their butts and start talking standardized rules that will remain constant for a number of seasons.

Chris

[pitviper]

It will be very interesting to see how how homologation numbers will be affected, if at all... will we see the likes of the Saleen and MC12 go away entirely? Or is this just further indication that something like the MC12, S7R, 911 GT1-98, R390, McLaren GTR Longtail, etc is what the ACO wants to see LMP1 looking like (literally)?

hmmm...

pit

[HORNDAWG]

Is the SRO / FIA attempting to push the ACO to class Rules?! Read power play (?)

“answer the needs of every GT category and allow for the establishment of a World Championship”.

which neatly leads the FIA to suggest the establishment of “an official FIA World Championship”.

Paraphrased quotes from DSC

And just what are the thoughts/reactions of the ACO to the aforementioned SRO/FIA GT class rule proposals? It will be interesting to see just how convoluted (or not) this all gets!!

L.P.

[The359]

So the FIA wants GT to be a world championship, but at the same time allow ALMS/LMS/JLMC/Le Mans to run their own seperate series with the same GT cars? Wont this overlap a bit too much?

Why not just resurrect the old World Championship by combining ALMS/LMS/JLMC/Le Mans for all four classes?

[dxk1]

Earlier it was said that GT1 and GT2 will be scrapped. Then it is said that GT1 will be 5.5 L or bigger. That sounds like there will be a GT1 and presently all of the cars in GT1 are bigger than 5.5 liter. Ferrari, MC-12, Lambo & AM = ~6, Saleen & Corvette = ~7. So what is changing?

DK

[Jonerz]

It's all scurrilous rumor and speculation at this point I think.

Chris

[The359]

Originally Posted by dxk1

Earlier it was said that GT1 and GT2 will be scrapped. Then it is said that GT1 will be 5.5 L or bigger. That sounds like there will be a GT1 and presently all of the cars in GT1 are bigger than 5.5 liter. Ferrari, MC-12, Lambo & AM = ~6, Saleen & Corvette = ~7. So what is changing?

DK

The aerodynamics and technology, most likely. They'll have the be closer to production. As someone said, like GT3 but with more power.

[Jonerz]

I do not like them reigning in the cars' technologically. Of course, with the LMP1 regs for the future, perhaps LMP1 will be the destination for Corvette Racing, ProDrive, Saleen and or Oreca and the like... however, what does this mean for GT2? Will GT2 just be scrapped completely in favor of this all encompassing "super GT3" category? Am I getting ahead of myself factoring in Le Mans? This is purely a SRO proposal to the FIA is it not? Now I'm just confused...

Chris