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Old 4 Feb 2017, 13:14 (Ref:3709363)   #76
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Implying that the SGT teams would leave their home series to go on a World Tour is a bit much.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3709438)   #77
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Implying that the SGT teams would leave their home series to go on a World Tour is a bit much.
I think it'd be a factory backed effort. That would be interesting but I don't think a dtm tub with bodywork is a good idea for gte.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 18:39 (Ref:3709471)   #78
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I think it'd be a factory backed effort. That would be interesting but I don't think a dtm tub with bodywork is a good idea for gte.
Not necessarily a replacement for GTE but whole new class that would slot between GTE and LMP2. But who knows if they could actually compete for 24hr and sustain. Would be interesting.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 18:56 (Ref:3709485)   #79
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A GT500 car would destroy an LMP2 car around a track.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3709518)   #80
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They wouldn't. They lap within a second or so of each other at Fuji, with the old LP2 cars. If GT500 don't find a few seconds a lap this year then they'll be slower than the new LMP2 cars at Fuji. Even if they do, it'll be close. Certainly no significant performance gap.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 20:24 (Ref:3709597)   #81
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The p2 cars will have to improve by about 3 seconds to be faster than gt500. At Fuji they'll be running 1:29's or 1:30's.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 20:32 (Ref:3709604)   #82
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They ran 30s in the race last year. LMP2s were a second off that. It was said the new LMP2s would easily find that. I never said the P2s were faster, just that they certainly wouldn't get destroyed by GT500s. If you ran them all together last ear they'd mix in. No significant gap. If you were to run both on the track together you'd need to turn one class down a bit.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 21:16 (Ref:3709663)   #83
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They ran 30s in the race last year. LMP2s were a second off that. It was said the new LMP2s would easily find that. I never said the P2s were faster, just that they certainly wouldn't get destroyed by GT500s. If you ran them all together last ear they'd mix in. No significant gap. If you were to run both on the track together you'd need to turn one class down a bit.
I wasn't implying you said they were faster. I was making the comparison because the talk about having a gt type car as the top class came up.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 23:20 (Ref:3709780)   #84
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I like everything about GTLM/GTE right now with one maybe two exceptions. The first is that I wish the cars had more horsepower overall. I still hated it that they were dusted by the DPI's on the banking at Daytona even though in the infield they are even.

I dont expect a straight up overall fight but they should be quicker than the GT3's and not get dusted by the DPI's like they are not there.

I hope in 2018, the WEC will consider a race with just the GTE cars only so the factories can feature more. Its great that GTLM has 2 races with no DPI's to worry about this year.
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Old 5 Feb 2017, 00:04 (Ref:3709818)   #85
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The Lime Rock or VIR 500 merging the WEC and IMSA entries.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 03:45 (Ref:3710353)   #86
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Manufacturers will always be more alluring than privateers. I wish Super GT500 was allowed in WEC season cause 3 more manufactures would be present and first tier drivers would be willing to join the WEC because of them.
GT 500 should go to GTE / GTLM rules, so the Japanese can go to Le Mans as they want and maybe some European team could race in the 1000 km of Suzuka.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 03:57 (Ref:3710360)   #87
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GT 500 should go to GTE / GTLM rules, so the Japanese can go to Le Mans as they want and maybe some European team could race in the 1000 km of Suzuka.
No.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 05:13 (Ref:3710365)   #88
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The current car construction rules are pretty perfect for GT500, but the homologation and performance balancing are very not.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3710379)   #89
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I don't like the fact they are using the DTM spec tub. But other than that they're pretty awesome. I agree that they wouldn't work with the current GTE rules. The GTR is too big, it'd have to come with some heavy bop like the GT3 car.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 00:21 (Ref:3710588)   #90
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I don't like the fact they are using the DTM spec tub. But other than that they're pretty awesome. I agree that they wouldn't work with the current GTE rules. The GTR is too big, it'd have to come with some heavy bop like the GT3 car.
For me the use of GTE/GTLM rules for GT500 have a lot of advantage:

1) The japaneses wants to go to Le Mans and wants to race the 6 hours of Fuji (wec), GTE allow this.
2) The agreement with the DTM is a failure, main problem of that the tires. GTE have free tires rules like GT500.
3) The GTE/GTLM go to 600 HP and go to more extreme cars in the next years (GT1 Style). The Ford GT open the way to this more extreme cars, Porsche is the second and of course this will be continue.
4) The cars could be use in IMSA one of the most important markets for Japanese brands.
5) The possibility of European teams race the 1000 KM of Suzuka.

It is a great waste that these big teams and cars compete at the local level without showing their power and technology in the world.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 14:58 (Ref:3710710)   #91
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Why slow them down by a whole lot?

GT500 for the past like, 20 years has always been about the fastest GT/Touring cars in the world over a single lap.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 17:04 (Ref:3710734)   #92
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Why slow them down by a whole lot?

GT500 for the past like, 20 years has always been about the fastest GT/Touring cars in the world over a single lap.
With 100 HP more and the arrival of the new extreme cars I have the sensation that GTE/GTLM will have a much better pace the next years.
I also prefer a global vision than a local vision.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 17:10 (Ref:3710735)   #93
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With 100 HP more and the arrival of the new extreme cars I have the sensation that GTE/GTLM will have a much better pace the next years.
I also prefer a global vision than a local vision.
GT500 cars are close to LMP1 pace. GTE/GTLM will never be allowed to climb to that level as long as LMP2 exists.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 17:18 (Ref:3710738)   #94
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With 100 HP more and the arrival of the new extreme cars I have the sensation that GTE/GTLM will have a much better pace the next years.
I also prefer a global vision than a local vision.
If you de-restricted the GTLM cars, the heads up racing between GTLM and GT500 would be out of control... like..probably some of the best racing on earth. Ever.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 21:16 (Ref:3710803)   #95
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GTE weighs a lot more, over 200kg more. And their aero isn't as extreme, so they would need more freedom and work done to them to be competitive with current GT500's. But if they aligned rules and GTE does drop weight + gain power, I would be in favor of that.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 10:17 (Ref:3710925)   #96
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At points in the season you could see a GT500 NSX running at 1149kg, theoretically anyways. The Aston Martins were at 1183kg last time they raced.

I would not say Class 1 aero is more extreme than new GTE






Class 1 has more freedom to use certain devices (GTE is limited to two diveplanes mounted on the front per side while Class 1 can go nuts, and they get fender louvers), and can cut away bodywork along the sides where GTE can't, but for the most part it's much more restrictive in where and how much you can modify bodywork, and with the 2017 rules in particular the underbody is almost pathetic in comparison.

Plus GT500 cars are narrower and have to run a skid block.

Take the back of the rear fender, GTE cars all cut that away entirely up to the 350mm free area for the rear bumper while Class 1 can only have a 200x250mm rear facing duct that the tire can't be seen through. The front bumper modification area for Class 1 is only 275mm tall with heavily controlled ducting while for GTE it's 350mm and pretty free. The GTE car can in theory run a longer front splitter if the production car has a long enough overhang (the Ford at least presumably manages this), plus the contour of the Class 1 splitter is spec while GTE cars have very developed 3D shapes. GTE car has a 250mm tall, 1400mm wide more or less free diffuser up to 1150mm (maybe on the Porsche) while the GT500 is another (presumably still) spec contoured part 105mm tall, 1160mm wide, and 1050mm long. (it used to be 205mm tall)

When you put it against a Ford GT it completely loses any advantage having a "prototype" chassis might have given it in internal layout or car setup too.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 16:43 (Ref:3710991)   #97
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At points in the season you could see a GT500 NSX running at 1149kg, theoretically anyways. The Aston Martins were at 1183kg last time they raced.

I would not say Class 1 aero is more extreme than new GTE






Class 1 has more freedom to use certain devices (GTE is limited to two diveplanes mounted on the front per side while Class 1 can go nuts, and they get fender louvers), and can cut away bodywork along the sides where GTE can't, but for the most part it's much more restrictive in where and how much you can modify bodywork, and with the 2017 rules in particular the underbody is almost pathetic in comparison.

Plus GT500 cars are narrower and have to run a skid block.

Take the back of the rear fender, GTE cars all cut that away entirely up to the 350mm free area for the rear bumper while Class 1 can only have a 200x250mm rear facing duct that the tire can't be seen through. The front bumper modification area for Class 1 is only 275mm tall with heavily controlled ducting while for GTE it's 350mm and pretty free. The GTE car can in theory run a longer front splitter if the production car has a long enough overhang (the Ford at least presumably manages this), plus the contour of the Class 1 splitter is spec while GTE cars have very developed 3D shapes. GTE car has a 250mm tall, 1400mm wide more or less free diffuser up to 1150mm (maybe on the Porsche) while the GT500 is another (presumably still) spec contoured part 105mm tall, 1160mm wide, and 1050mm long. (it used to be 205mm tall)

When you put it against a Ford GT it completely loses any advantage having a "prototype" chassis might have given it in internal layout or car setup too.
Very good info carbsmith!!!
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 17:28 (Ref:3710993)   #98
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GTE would have to lose about 200kg to equal the minimum weight of the GT500's. That's the biggest disparity between them. The Ford is probably the best car but it's hovering around 1270kg. I'm sure it's weight without ballast is less, but 1000kg like the FR GT500's? I don't think so. The Aston Martin was 1180kg at one point but only equal to cars weighing 90kg more than it.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 17:58 (Ref:3710995)   #99
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GTE would have to lose about 200kg to equal the minimum weight of the GT500's. That's the biggest disparity between them. The Ford is probably the best car but it's hovering around 1270kg. I'm sure it's weight without ballast is less, but 1000kg like the FR GT500's? I don't think so. The Aston Martin was 1180kg at one point but only equal to cars weighing 90kg more than it.
You could just ballast the GT500 up some, and bring the GTE down some...
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 20:29 (Ref:3711028)   #100
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You could just ballast the GT500 up some, and bring the GTE down some...
I just think its time to allow GTLM's to have more horsepower. The ability to have typical lap times to be 1 min 40 - 1 min 41 at Daytona and about 3 min 45 at Le Mans would be ideal.
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