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Old 18 May 2018, 10:20 (Ref:3823200)   #841
Cinghio44
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Originally Posted by MissClarrpz View Post
This isn't WTCC, it's TCR. It's meant for all the privateers, every person who wants to race for a (relatively) cheap price in many championships can. While building a good car should be commended it shouldn't lead to a championship domination or TCR's case, championships. If there was no BoP the LMP3 situation would happen where everyone had to get rid of the slower Ginetta and buy anything else to have a chance of racing.

It means you don't have to buy new machinery or updates every season or sooner just to be competitive, saving a lot of money.
I agree with you, the problem is that the TCR concept is young. Now there is more pressure with the WTCR, the manufacturer are more involved. This is only the first year and to sort out a good BOP is not easy, just looks what happened in WEC for the GT cars...

I have no problem the Hyundai domination at this stage, they have prepared a fantastic car and even with an harsher BOP they clearly show that the i30 is the car to beat this year.

Obviously for the next seasons I would expect something better
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Old 18 May 2018, 12:03 (Ref:3823229)   #842
Fechna
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Originally Posted by Cinghio44 View Post
I agree with you, the problem is that the TCR concept is young. Now there is more pressure with the WTCR, the manufacturer are more involved. This is only the first year and to sort out a good BOP is not easy, just looks what happened in WEC for the GT cars...

I have no problem the Hyundai domination at this stage, they have prepared a fantastic car and even with an harsher BOP they clearly show that the i30 is the car to beat this year.

Obviously for the next seasons I would expect something better
Well i disagree a little bit: everyone in their right mind knew since the end of last season and marakech this year, that Hyundai has a better car then Audi, Golf and last years Honda. And the bop has been never so bad as this year, and this is year 4 of TCR. Its not new by any means.

I do have a big problem with Hyundai dominating, because TCR is not made to display supreme engineering, but giving Drivers an equal battleground with reasonable costs.

Also TCR is a Business model for brands and customer racing. So from this viewpoint a well build car isn't the fastest before bop, but the cheapest to produce (while being attractive for the market by beeing cheap and easy to run, with good service in spares, etc.) to maximise the profits when selling the car to customers.
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Old 19 May 2018, 20:59 (Ref:3823425)   #843
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I do have a big problem with Hyundai dominating, because TCR is not made to display supreme engineering, but giving Drivers an equal battleground with reasonable costs.

They knew in advance that TCR organisation would stop them as soon as the complains come too loud.
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Old 23 May 2018, 09:32 (Ref:3824161)   #844
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
How does Hyundai or any other car maker get such an advantage over another car?

I’m well aware that you have good cars and bad cars, but is it a matter of bending the rules or is it simply the car is better built?

I’d have thought with a fixed rule set it would be hard for one car to be a lot better than another, after all if all cars are built to the same weight and have similar engine power, how can there be such a disparity?
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Old 23 May 2018, 11:01 (Ref:3824178)   #845
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I’d have thought with a fixed rule set it would be hard for one car to be a lot better than another, after all if all cars are built to the same weight and have similar engine power, how can there be such a disparity?
You'll note in Super Touring where every car had 2000cc with 300-320bhp and exactly the same weight, the performance of different cars was *far* from equal! :P
There are other factors like aerodynamics, suspension geometry (in TCR a variation on the road going geometry and suspension type must be used), and simply how developed and fine tuned the car is.

For example, despite similar (in fact less) weight than the others, the KIA and Subaru are not particularly competitive in TCR... they are not well developed.

The Audi and Volkswagen were previously (in previous season(s)) penalised with an additional 20-30kg, and were running this season in WTCR at 1325-1335kg, while the Hyundai was running at 1305kg............

Now some weight has been taken off the VW and Audi and some weight added to the Hyundai, which should balance things.


The organisers also use changes in ride height and 2.5% changes in power level as other tools to equalise the cars. You can assume how with the "best" car likely to sell the best, the manufacturers are inclined to cheat the system if they can (or for there to be performance creep with newer homologations getting increasingly faster like in GT3), and the organiser must use their tools to acheive proper BOP.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 23 May 2018 at 11:08.
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Old 23 May 2018, 16:13 (Ref:3824237)   #846
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In TCR a variation on the road going geometry and suspension type must be used.
This is why I think the Alfa can never be truly competitive.
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Old 25 May 2018, 14:49 (Ref:3824574)   #847
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Standings after Zandvoort:

1. FRA Yann Ehrlacher (Honda), 146 pts
2. FRA Yvan Muller (Hyundai), 137
3. GBR Robert Huff (Volkswagen), 130
4. FRA Jean-Karl Vernay (Audi), 121
5. ITA Gabriele Tarquini (Hyundai), 118
6. SWE Thed Björk (Hyundai), 112
7. ARG Esteban Guerrieri (Honda), 109
8. HUN Norbert Michelisz (Hyundai), 102
9. BEL Frédéric Vervisch (Audi), 65
10. ESP Pepe Oriola (Cupra), 63
11. MOR Mehdi Bennani (Volkswagen), 63
12. FRA Aurélien Comte (Peugeot), 58
13. GBR Gordon Shedden (Audi), 58
14. HUN Dániel Nagy (Cupra), 36
15. GBR James Thompson (Honda), 36
16. BEL Benjamin Lessennes (Honda), 36
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Old 7 Jun 2018, 13:44 (Ref:3827398)   #848
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Why is there 3 rounds in China?
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Old 7 Jun 2018, 15:29 (Ref:3827421)   #849
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Juntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

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Why is there 3 rounds in China?

Cause Wuhan itself sells more cars than Portugal and Slovakia together?
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Old 7 Jun 2018, 15:42 (Ref:3827428)   #850
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Originally Posted by Juntos View Post
Cause Wuhan itself sells more cars than Portugal and Slovakia together?
That might have made sense when it was a manufacturer-driven series (wanting to promote their brands in Asia etc), however the WTCR no longer has works teams taking part, so why the big push for China?
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Old 7 Jun 2018, 18:24 (Ref:3827453)   #851
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Rubio should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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That might have made sense when it was a manufacturer-driven series (wanting to promote their brands in Asia etc), however the WTCR no longer has works teams taking part, so why the big push for China?
Just as a theory - maybe Eurosport signed a long term contract with Ningbo in WTCC days so they had to keep it for this year?

Agree, 3 rounds in China for a 10-round calendar is way too much.
Circuit choice in 2018 is actually awful for truly good racing.

Surprised Hyundai hasn't pushed for a Korean round yet.
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Old 8 Jun 2018, 18:39 (Ref:3827710)   #852
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Juntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

China and US is where the big money is. Not old and decadent Europe. US doesn't give a crap about European based racing series and China is still a market to explore. Eurosport Events follows the money. I can't see Brands Hatch or Imola opening the cheque book to host WTCR events anymore.
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