[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[chernaudi]

If anyone knows something like an estimate for what Toyota's times were like, then we might get an idea of if the privateers might be competitive. Problem is I think we'll have to wait until the WEC Prologue before we get any reliable info.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Juntos

If they go too fast; ACO will put brakes on them. Imagine a private LMP1 taking the overall pole-position at Le Mans. Unacceptable.

The ACO will murder them once they see the trap speeds at the end of HTTT's Mistral come April

If Alonso wasn't there the ACO probably wouldn't care quite as much if it was some Dallara or whoever that stole pole from Toyota at Le Mans, but alas, the PR headlines are too important.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The ACO will murder them once they see the trap speeds at the end of HTTT's Mistral come April

If Alonso wasn't there the ACO probably wouldn't care quite as much if it was some Dallara or whoever that stole pole from Toyota at Le Mans, but alas, the PR headlines are too important.

But the rules (to equalize the two types of lmp1) were written before Alonso even joined Toyota, so that doesn't really add up. I'm sure Alonso getting pole or the win would be amazing for their PR but rules are already in place.

[Skemer]

I wonder if reactions by some concerning this bop eot discussion would be the same if Audi and Porsche where still in the game.

[Deleted]

Well for the record, in the last 10 years, there's only been two occasions when I've been actually for real been disappointed by balancing in LMP1 anywhere in the world. The first, 2011 ALMS (so not even actual ACO) when Dyson Lola-Mazdas received ridiculous restrictor breaks every race to make it a 'fight' against the Lola-AMR of Pickett. It was like DPi or something. The second, 2013 when Toyota moaned prior to Le Mans and was handed a late fuel break. Even though with that you can always look at the diesel situation and roll your eyes, it was still nevertheless kind of cheap.

So anyway with that, I'm not tooooooo worried they'll mess this, because the track record for the class has been great recently... they more likely won't screw it up. Not that the other categories really raise confidence but sometimes you need to have faith...

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Skemer

I wonder if reactions by some concerning this bop eot discussion would be the same if Audi and Porsche where still in the game.

Probably not.

Because

A) Audi and Porsche would have entered Hybrid cars as well and,

B) their budgets would have been - and were - non comparable to this season's - and previous years' - privateers (even though SMP and Rebellion are the heavy hitters among them).

[LMPFan]

Here is a article of a quick overview of the LMP1 privateer Aragon Test.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...-notebook.html

"Trackside observers though have reported (track timing screens were active for the test) that the Ginetta put in an early lap in the very low 1:19s with the refettled CLM in the mid 1:19s and the BR1, now well into its test cycle, in the mid 1:17s. One source suggests that the CLM managed a lap in the 1:18s, though without a transponder fitted.
Local sources in Spain suggest that the Toyotas were putting in 1:18s on long runs at their last visit to the Aragon track."

[Bentley03]

Overview of Aragon testing from DSC. Ginetta happy, and finally we have unofficial word of the sort of laptimes Toyota were putting in on long runs at their last Aragon test, by way of comparison:

Link

[Lutzvic]

I'm eager to see Rebellion on the track....for me the most serious contender. Due to the NA Gibson powerplant as well probably the most reliable.(based on LMP2 2017)

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

I'm eager to see Rebellion on the track....for me the most serious contender. Due to the NA Gibson powerplant as well probably the most reliable.(based on LMP2 2017)

Don't think NA gibson powered lmp1 will be able to mark monster performances like the ones shown during these days; 110kg/h is the fuel flow value for all private lmp1.
As you may know, is really really unlikely that a 9000rpm NA engine may have same fuel efficiency of a turbo engine.....

At same fuel flow rate, turbo engines will have more hp and better consumes. It's just maths.

[Lutzvic]

All true, but to win the car must move at 15:00 Sunday as well. Neither the AER, Nismo nor the Mecachrome will fulfill this requirement. So my bet is on Rebellion.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

All true, but to win the car must move at 15:00 Sunday as well. Neither the AER, Nismo nor the Mecachrome will fulfill this requirement. So my bet is on Rebellion.

Nismo wasn't unreliable, and kolles team hands are not the most trustable for sure....

How can you say that mecachrome engine is unreliable? basically its whole life was spent in a dynanometer so far

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Nismo wasn't unreliable, and kolles team hands are not the most trustable for sure....

How can you say that mecachrome engine is unreliable? basically its whole life was spent in a dynanometer so far

To add to that, Kolles' Nissan engine that failed at Le Mans last year failed because of a Kolles bodywork failure that blocked the radiators and boiled the engine while going to the pits. Boiled engine held together for a few more laps including a lap within about a second of their qualifying time (!!!).

And the Mecachrome is supposed to be reliable as it's the same engine that will be in the whole F2 field. And according to the F2 website, http://www.fiaformula2.com/Guide-to/The-car-and-engine/, rebuild interval is 8000 km. More than enough for pretty much the whole of Thursday quali, warmup and the race at Le Mans.

[Turbodcc]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

To add to that, Kolles' Nissan engine that failed at Le Mans last year failed because of a Kolles bodywork failure that blocked the radiators and boiled the engine while going to the pits. Boiled engine held together for a few more laps including a lap within about a second of their qualifying time (!!!).

And the Mecachrome is supposed to be reliable as it's the same engine that will be in the whole F2 field. And according to the F2 website, http://www.fiaformula2.com/Guide-to/The-car-and-engine/, rebuild interval is 8000 km. More than enough for pretty much the whole of Thursday quali, warmup and the race at Le Mans.

I still have reservations about the mecachrome engine. The F2 spec is a supposedly 620hp. Those races will also be a hell of a lot shorter than any endurance race. Plus they have had to add direct injection. That is a lot of work on its own! Then add in the ACO increasing fuel flow rates to help the privateers keep up with Toyotas. That all adds up to a lot more stress, pressure and forces to contend with. Although given the times achieved by the ART car I think the ffr may be pulled back depending on the prologue.

All in all, I think a lot of questions still hanging over every engine in a privateer car.

[canaglia]

Agree, can't remember any big issue from nissan engine, as dear victor_ro said, during last le mans CLM engine blow as a tragic consequence of bodywork damage during the very first minute of the first lap.
We will never be allowed to know real efficiency % of porsce/toyota/nismo-cosworth engines, but no doubts to me that nismo v6 is the petrol most powerful engine ever made in lmp1.

Me too have concerns about mecachrome motor; not just about reliability, but about wierd structure and figures.... an high rev 3.4 turned in a single turbocharged 3.4L with a not so great torque release despite displacement.... it's just an unusual design.... anyway time will tell.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Agree, can't remember any big issue from nissan engine, as dear victor_ro said, during last le mans CLM engine blow as a tragic consequence of bodywork damage during the very first minute of the first lap.
We will never be allowed to know real efficiency % of porsce/toyota/nismo-cosworth engines, but no doubts to me that nismo v6 is the petrol most powerful engine ever made in lmp1.

Me too have concerns about mecachrome motor; not just about reliability, but about wierd structure and figures.... an high rev 3.4 turned in a single turbocharged 3.4L with a not so great torque release despite displacement.... it's just an unusual design.... anyway time will tell.

I dont remember the exact post, but Japanese Samurai put up something from Nissan a while ago saying the engine was over 42% or 43% thermal efficiency. Pretty good for being a non-hybrid.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

All true, but to win the car must move at 15:00 Sunday as well. Neither the AER, Nismo nor the Mecachrome will fulfill this requirement. So my bet is on Rebellion.

Quite so, and Rebellion (certainly with Sebah engineering the cars) have always had a philosophy of looking for reliability first and foremost. And the signs are that that will continue under Oreca, given the package. Not sure I'd be quite so quick to dismiss the other engines though...

Welcome to 10Tenths, by the way!

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Welcome to 10Tenths, by the way!

And welcome to LMPFan too!

[Lutzvic]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

And welcome to LMPFan too!

Thank You for the warm welcome!
I've been once to LeMans in 2016 and will go this year again. Can't wait....
Back to the topic I do not share the widespread opinion of a 'hollow' Toyota victory.
I see the privateers very competitive and the ones with Gibson powerplant in favour. Unless ACO biasing it I think Toyota will sweat.....

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Lutzvic

Unless ACO biasing it I think Toyota will sweat.....

I think that's what we're all hoping, and a pack of 8 privateers will hopefully produce at least a couple of cars at each round which remain reliable enough to make a race of it. Toyota will have an advantage in terms of time spent in the pits, but any issues and we should have a race. It all looks very promising, but who knows how things will actually pan out.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

I dont remember the exact post, but Japanese Samurai put up something from Nissan a while ago saying the engine was over 42% or 43% thermal efficiency. Pretty good for being a non-hybrid.

Impressive indeed, can't rember in which topic, but another user some time ago reported a maths formula to calculate a (theoric) max power knowing thermal efficiency and fuel flow rate

[tomerswayler]

Power [kW] = FuelFlow [kg/h] * EnergyDensity [MJ/kg] * Efficiency [%] / 3600 * 1000

The 3600 and 1000 are needed to convert hours into seconds and MJ into kJ. For the power in hp, multiply by 1.36. The energy density of the fuel should be around 40 to 42 MJ/kg.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by tomerswayler

Power [kW] = FuelFlow [kg/h] * EnergyDensity [MJ/kg] * Efficiency [%] / 3600 * 1000

The 3600 and 1000 are needed to convert hours into seconds and MJ into kJ. For the power in hp, multiply by 1.36. The energy density of the fuel should be around 40 to 42 MJ/kg.

Using 42% as fuel efficiency and 42MJ/kg, power should be 539kw (722hp) with a 110kg/h fuel flow rate. If I calculated correctly.

[GasperG]

They are using E20 petrol with lower MJ/kg.

[canaglia]

Guess 42MJ/kg is correct because "standard" petrol energy/density is about 44MJ/kg and over.