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Old 28 Mar 2010, 08:58 (Ref:2661534)   #1
JohnD
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Replica in historics?

All,
I'm minded to build a replica of a famous (in Triumph circles) American race car, Kastner's 'Candy Box' Vitesse. The Triumph Vitesse has an FIA homologation, but the CB was way outside that - coil-over rear suspension for a start. If I did, I'd want to race it, but would it be acceptable in any Historic series?

John
(In UK, but no objection to European series)
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 11:31 (Ref:2661661)   #2
p261brm
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p261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridp261brm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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All,
I'm minded to build a replica of a famous (in Triumph circles) American race car, Kastner's 'Candy Box' Vitesse. The Triumph Vitesse has an FIA homologation, but the CB was way outside that - coil-over rear suspension for a start. If I did, I'd want to race it, but would it be acceptable in any Historic series?

John
(In UK, but no objection to European series)
The various organisers of race series seem to have little or no objection to many so called continuation 'replica' cars, many are outragously way beyound what can even very lightly be described as replicas. A recently viewed advert 'for sale' described the car as 'the nuts' little investigation soon produced some doubt as to the engine being in the 'spirit' of the regulations or originality, why should they object to your idea/and or plans, when a faithfull re-production of a previously raced car is the only desire and result, just because it was outside of the homologated version. But I bet 10 bob to a shilling they will, unless of course it is a Ferrari and your name is Ecclestone.
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 15:17 (Ref:2661813)   #3
Tim Falce
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You want to build and race a fake car in historics? tut tut.
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 16:02 (Ref:2661853)   #4
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You want to build and race a fake car in historics? tut tut.
Precicely, the advantage of course it will not look out of place on most grids. I honestly do not consider these cars fakes any more unless they are puporting to be described as an original car and are as near as posible both in materials design and construction as the original. The continuation cars are now part of the historic scene.

Last edited by p261brm; 28 Mar 2010 at 16:13. Reason: addendum
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 16:45 (Ref:2661892)   #5
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rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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All,
I'm minded to build a replica of a famous (in Triumph circles) American race car, Kastner's 'Candy Box' Vitesse. The Triumph Vitesse has an FIA homologation, but the CB was way outside that - coil-over rear suspension for a start. If I did, I'd want to race it, but would it be acceptable in any Historic series?

John
(In UK, but no objection to European series)
I think most series would welcome it if it had the appearance of the US car but ran to homologation specification - or at least to the regulations of the series in which you intend to race it.
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Old 28 Mar 2010, 19:05 (Ref:2662049)   #6
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It may well fit Pieter Bakker's Legendary Circuits series...
http://www.fisc-eurotour.org/
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 14:55 (Ref:2662724)   #7
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Have a look at the Classic Sports Car Cub's "Swinging Sixties" series,

http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/

http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.u...ginsixties.htm

40 minute races for one or two drivers with a compulsory pit stop. Good VfM & very popular. Sounds like it would suit your modified racer, although note that the silhouette has to be the same as a production car in all views and the engine type has to be the same.

Last edited by andy97; 29 Mar 2010 at 15:03.
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 15:45 (Ref:2662762)   #8
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All,
I'm minded to build a replica of a famous (
Oooh, worms, can, opening.....!!

I'm with Andy97 on this, (I am biased as I have raced with them) but CSCC sounds bang on for you and they have the Euro circuits too.
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 17:09 (Ref:2662854)   #9
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Thank you!
CSCC have an 'original engine' rule for Swinging Sixties, one that I already run foul of with my current race Vitesse. I'm told it was instituted because certain cars turned up with much more modern, Cosworth engines and the organisers were concered to prevent cheque-book winning causing cost inflation in the series. I've no quarrel with that, although I have a 2.5 litre six-cylinder Triumph engine, in place of the original 2 litre six-cylinder Triumph engine - same block, just different crank! - but the Candy Box was also a 2.5 Vitesse. I've discussed the current car with them, but they are adamant, so I fear they would have the same attitude about any 2.5 Vitesse.
No criticism of CSCC; it's their party, after all!

Are other Historic (capital 'H') series strictly Appendix 'K'?

John
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 19:38 (Ref:2662982)   #10
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why not accept the ruling and run the 2Ltr?,they can be made to give very good power and that would keep you in a lower class?
Dont think you'll find any AppK series that will allow the 2.5 engine,and quite rightly so,I share the CSCCs standpoint I'm afraid.
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 20:02 (Ref:2663002)   #11
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probably the problem is a neighbour of mine ran a 2.5 vitesse occasionally with the CSCC in the invitation class . he has now put the engine in a tvr.
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 20:30 (Ref:2663017)   #12
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jellison has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Likely / possibly the CSCC, though no expert, certainly not the HSCC or even the Thoroughbreds.

You could do the one off Summer race run for the last two years by Jigsaw racing - Contact Mark at Jigsaw - Top bloke.[mark@jigsawracingservices.co.uk] - http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/ See Invitation races. There has been a modded Vittesse in this and (no idea what) series, but in my view it is Hideous and Very Slow!! http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/jigsawrace17.JPG

Kastner ran TR's too - i.e. Cool Triumphs
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 21:38 (Ref:2663069)   #13
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There has only been one Vitesse (at a time)in UK Triumph racing for more than ten years, and they have been mine! Slow? Yes, compared to you. Hideous? Everyone loves their children. Which did you dislike the most, the black estate (aka hearse) or the green coupe?

I was offered the 'Invitation' class by CSCC, but that meant you only got to race if the grid was not filled!

In fact the CB had 2 and 2.5 engines at various times, but I prefer the 2.5 Ho hum. Thank you all for your ideas (even jellison). It's all ideas for now, anyway.

John
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 21:45 (Ref:2663074)   #14
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There has been a modded Vittesse in this and (no idea what) series, but in my view it is Hideous and Very Slow!! http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/jigsawrace17.JPG
That modded Vitesse was a Herald
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 22:33 (Ref:2663101)   #15
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ah! The Hadfield Herald! Faster than me too! But in a horrid colour.

See both suspects here: http://www.jigsawracingservices.co.uk/jigsawrace.htm
And the previous suspect here:
http://www.thegrid.co.uk/Gallery/Joh...ph-Vitesse.jpg

John
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Old 29 Mar 2010, 22:43 (Ref:2663105)   #16
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If I'm thinking of the right car didn't the Yank Vitesse have somewhat flared arches? This also contravenes the CSCC silhouete rule.
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Old 30 Mar 2010, 06:30 (Ref:2663227)   #17
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Thank you!
CSCC have an 'original engine' rule for Swinging Sixties, one that I already run foul of with my current race Vitesse.
John
AFAIK the engine rule is "original engine TYPE".
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Old 30 Mar 2010, 07:04 (Ref:2663244)   #18
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jellison has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Ah yes now you point it out, only the two headlights.

They look fun for a hippy love child to be cruising about in roof down in the summer, but racing!

Why not build a clone of the Silver Bullet TR4 (miles faster than anything Kastner ever built) - it still lives in the midlands BTW (Pete Cox's car and why I decided I had to have one).
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Old 3 Apr 2010, 10:02 (Ref:2665845)   #19
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From what I understand the car will in all probabilty not be eligible for an HTP. In some arenae this may give you a problem. Whilst replicas are now broadly accepted-lets face it replica's are better than fakes, at least you know where you are-in quite a few places the organisers do demand an HTP if you are going to run a a ''Historic'. Often this relates to ASN regulations and insurances.
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Old 3 Apr 2010, 10:49 (Ref:2665881)   #20
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Jeremy,
Thank you!
Reading the FIA FAQ page: http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/qanda/historic_qa.html they intend an HC for an authentic car from the period and an HTP for a replica. The letters that follow address this specific point.
So why should my project not be eligable for an HTP? I doubt if the FIA will have records of the Candy Box, and as discussed it has no App.K spec. But the car exists, I am in touch with the owner and there are records of its history. Would that allow an HTP to be issued?
Which ASNs had you in mind?

John
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Old 3 Apr 2010, 16:33 (Ref:2666015)   #21
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The base line requirement for any ASN to issue an HTP is that the car or one to an identical specification has taken part in an International event-i.e one which has appeared on the annual calendar of events as published by the FIA. I suspect the car you are taliking about is/was a car built and raced to a national formula/club set of regulations and generally -except in very special cases-these fall outside the requirements of Appendix K and therefore the access to an HTP. There is a provision for ''National specials'' but they have to be pretty special and generally a replica of one would not get an HTP.
Sorry to pee on your strawberries but.....
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Old 3 Apr 2010, 17:01 (Ref:2666019)   #22
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That's a wine, isn't it? Oh, no, "Cat's pee on a gooseberry bush".

No probs, Jeremy. Much as I like building cars, I like to use them too. I would be severely dischuffed if I had found this all out AFTER I had built the thing, and I was reduced to 'showing' it.

Maybe if I emigrated to the USA?
John
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Old 4 Apr 2010, 18:38 (Ref:2666743)   #23
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jellison has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Changed your mind yet?

Vitesse has to be one of the daftest choices for a race car ever. You will just look stupid.

I am here to help
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Old 7 Apr 2010, 20:03 (Ref:2668445)   #24
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Changed your mind yet?

Vitesse has to be one of the daftest choices for a race car ever. You will just look stupid.

time to get off the fence and say what you really think Jon
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Old 8 Apr 2010, 06:52 (Ref:2668634)   #25
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jellison has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Hahaha always best to tell it like it is, in my book. See ya Sunday
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