BTCC 2019 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This is a forum - I have as much right to post here as most others.
It is your choice whether you need to respond or not.

What I will not do is stop posting because you instruct me to.

2019, BTCC - perhaps that will be the season when JP gets his 99/100/101 victory tally and then we can wait with baited breath to see how he celebrates? I imagine it would get messier than supping a pint with fans trackside, or wearing grid girl outfits in the hotel afterwards?

I have the same rights you have.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

I have the same rights you have.

Agreed - but one of those rights is not to dictate to others to stop posting.

Back to hybrids - is it confirmed that BTCC will go hybrid, or will we see an alternative 'full electric' solution?

Could be the ideal time to see a Volvo Estate back in the BTCC - when they have their full range running on E-power.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Agreed - but one of those rights is not to dictate to others to stop posting.

Back to hybrids - is it confirmed that BTCC will go hybrid, or will we see an alternative 'full electric' solution?

Could be the ideal time to see a Volvo Estate back in the BTCC - when they have their full range running on E-power.

I just want to be left alone, not trying to dictate anybody or anything, difficult?

2022 could be a very interesting year for entries and maybe some will start appearing in 2020/1 in preparation? Probably not but who's to know?

[gregc]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Agreed - but one of those rights is not to dictate to others to stop posting.

Back to hybrids - is it confirmed that BTCC will go hybrid, or will we see an alternative 'full electric' solution?

Could be the ideal time to see a Volvo Estate back in the BTCC - when they have their full range running on E-power.

This article pretty much quotes the official press release from the BTCC media office. The nuts and bolts are (targeted to be introduced in full in 2022):

- There will be a spec hybrid unit fitted to all cars
- Each car will "have a reserve of supplementary hybrid power available during each race, which can then be used by drivers as part of the race strategy."
- The technical side of the project starts now and should take 12-18 months
- "Some current cars will be fitted with hybrid units during 2020/2021 as part of the project’s test and development programme."
- It will most likely be some form of push-to-pass system

Regarding cost, Alan Gow says...

But different to hybrid development within the likes of Formula 1, this certainly shouldn’t – and won’t – be an extreme technical exercise, but rather will be one which we will introduce within our NGTC technical regulations relatively seamlessly and very cost-effectively.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh

maybe some will start appearing in 2020/1 in preparation? Probably not but who's to know?

Originally Posted by gregc

This article pretty much quotes the official press release from the BTCC media office. The nuts and bolts are (targeted to be introduced in full in 2022):

- There will be a spec hybrid unit fitted to all cars
- Each car will "have a reserve of supplementary hybrid power available during each race, which can then be used by drivers as part of the race strategy."
- The technical side of the project starts now and should take 12-18 months
- "Some current cars will be fitted with hybrid units during 2020/2021 as part of the project’s test and development programme."
- It will most likely be some form of push-to-pass system

This does sound like it will force all cars to go FWD. As mentioned previously - this can be the opportunity to allow RWD entries, but that would make them incompatible with a hybrid reserve mounted in the rear subframe.

Integrating it into the existing powertrain would be extremely difficult, so surely a separate unit?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by gregc

- Each car will "have a reserve of supplementary hybrid power available during each race, which can then be used by drivers as part of the race strategy."
- It will most likely be some form of push-to-pass system

This is what worries me - sounds like F1-style DRS or KERS or whatever it is. A gimmick that the BTCC absolutely does not need or should have.

[Racer65]

Plenty of ways of fitting a supplementary power system that doesn't involve driving another axle. All depends on what sort of power they're talking about and for how long.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Evantra

This is what worries me - sounds like F1-style DRS or KERS or whatever it is. A gimmick that the BTCC absolutely does not need or should have.

Works well in IndyCar. Push To Pass is long established there, used for both attack and defence, and part of the strategy is keeping some in reserve for the end of the race.

If it's a proper regen-hybrid with a maximum capacity and power output I think it could make things really, really interesting - it's the exact analogue of turning up the fuel mix to grab more power at the end of a race as they used to do in both F1 and IndyCar.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Evantra

This is what worries me - sounds like F1-style DRS or KERS or whatever it is. A gimmick that the BTCC absolutely does not need or should have.

Arguably, some of the drivers think the series is already based on 'push to pass'!

[BillWiskins]

Having thought about it some more: personally, with success ballast, tyre options and random reverse grids I am completely okay with no more gimmicky 'features' being added to 'enhance' the racing.

Will it entice old-fashioned manufacturer support, or even just more of the current style? Will it raise the profile of the series? Give it 'green' credentials? Will it produce better racing compared with no hybrid?

I feel like there aren't a lot of 'yes' responses to the above. I said I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I am, but...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

Having thought about it some more: personally, with success ballast, tyre options and random reverse grids I am completely okay with no more gimmicky 'features' being added to 'enhance' the racing.

Will it entice old-fashioned manufacturer support, or even just more of the current style? Will it raise the profile of the series? Give it 'green' credentials? Will it produce better racing compared with no hybrid?

I feel like there aren't a lot of 'yes' responses to the above. I said I'd be happy to be proven wrong and I am, but...

I get the impression that it is not being introduced as a gimmick, or feature to improve anything. More a recognition of where the domestic market is positioned.

The change from BSCC came about because the average car was no longer saloon - even though some people still refer to it as saloon car racing.

Before anyone says this is different to the domestic hybrid cars, well that is also true of nearly everything else in a NGTC car - but doesn't stop the championship being positioned as one that sees 'standard family cars' racing on circuits.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I get the impression that it is not being introduced as a gimmick, or feature to improve anything. More a recognition of where the domestic market is positioned.

The change from BSCC came about because the average car was no longer saloon - even though some people still refer to it as saloon car racing.

Before anyone says this is different to the domestic hybrid cars, well that is also true of nearly everything else in a NGTC car - but doesn't stop the championship being positioned as one that sees 'standard family cars' racing on circuits.

Alan Gow would not introduce anything likely to be seen as a gimmick, this is just his way of moving the series forward with the times and the NGTC cars won't last forever.

[S griffin]

It's ok, we don't have to worry about it till 2022. So we can enjoy the current lot for now

[Alfisti]

Hmmm... not against hybrid at all, push to pass is not a bad thing as it can generate overtakes where we otherwise wouldn't get them.

My brain is preprogrammed to think Toyota whenever the word hybrid comes into view. Certainly an opportunity for car makers to showcase technology, even if the reality being what's on the roadcar differs significantly from what's on the racecar.

So, will the technical change mean all existing NGTC cars become redundant and everyone will need new to accommodate the hybrid systems? Or might they be able to be bolted on to existing cars?

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Hmmm... not against hybrid at all, push to pass is not a bad thing as it can generate overtakes where we otherwise wouldn't get them.

My brain is preprogrammed to think Toyota whenever the word hybrid comes into view. Certainly an opportunity for car makers to showcase technology, even if the reality being what's on the roadcar differs significantly from what's on the racecar.

So, will the technical change mean all existing NGTC cars become redundant and everyone will need new to accommodate the hybrid systems? Or might they be able to be bolted on to existing cars?

The way I'm reading it is that it will be an extension of the NGTC regs, and that the bit in bold is probably the aim (presumably with modifications to subframe(s) or similar) - but in reality no one knows. That, presumably, will be part of the work the technical working group will be doing for the next year and a half. The only thing that can be said with confidence based on today's press release really is that BTCC will go hybrid - everything else is TBC...

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

So, will the technical change mean all existing NGTC cars become redundant and everyone will need new to accommodate the hybrid systems? Or might they be able to be bolted on to existing cars?

I was wondering if we would get teams still running the NGTC for a couple of years while there is a crossover, similar to how S2000 cars still ran until 2013/2014ish for a different competition within the championship.

Money seems tight for some teams, im not so sure the likes of Hard, AMD, Parker will be able to deal with getting new spec cars in considering they have been running cars which, lets be polite, are a bit second hand

[Craner Curves]

I'm sure it'll still be NGTC, but version 3 of it.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Money seems tight for some teams, im not so sure the likes of Hard, AMD, Parker will be able to deal with getting new spec cars in considering they have been running cars which, lets be polite, are a bit second hand

I think we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves, This isn't happening until 2022. I'm not sure all of those teams will still be in BTCC by then regardless of any changes to technical regs.

BTW this thread is 2019 season discussion, do we need a separate 2022 rumours thread?

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by redshoes

BTW this thread is 2019 season discussion, do we need a separate 2022 rumours thread?

Better be! Never heavy to the touch.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Alan Gow did previously express a desire to limit the grids to 26 cars.

[antnee]

The system (like many appearing in road cars) will probably drive directly through the engine or gearbox, this means FWD and RWD formats can still be used. Hybrid batteries, motors and controllers are relatively cheap these days - I would say around 5-10k for a robust system, which is nothing compared to the build cost of a NGTC spec car. It could have the potential to reduce brake wear or allow smaller brakes - over a season it could almost break even.

Hopefully the marketing departments of the manufacturers will love it and jump on the bandwagon bringing loads of sponsorship in.

[Sodemo]

I agree with Matt Neal that they should vary the format of the races a little here and there. I would personally like to see a couple of extended races per year, maybe even make the Jack Sears trophy the reward for winning the race?

I would also like to see the night race return, though that probably wouldnt go down well with the live TV aspect.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I agree with Matt Neal that they should vary the format of the races a little here and there. I would personally like to see a couple of extended races per year, maybe even make the Jack Sears trophy the reward for winning the race?

I would also like to see the night race return, though that probably wouldnt go down well with the live TV aspect.

I would like to see a bit more variety
maybe bring back a proper "feature" race with pitstops or even go as far as a driver change endurance style for the last round of the season

Also if they want to call it the "option" tyre make it a bloody option!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by gregc

The way I'm reading it is that it will be an extension of the NGTC regs, and that the bit in bold is probably the aim (presumably with modifications to subframe(s) or similar) - but in reality no one knows. That, presumably, will be part of the work the technical working group will be doing for the next year and a half. The only thing that can be said with confidence based on today's press release really is that BTCC will go hybrid - everything else is TBC...

Bosch already make a hybrid motor, it replaces the alternator and the small battery pack can be bolted to the car floor. No real modifications to the car would be required.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I would also like to see the night race return, though that probably wouldnt go down well with the live TV aspect.

I don't see TV as being a major issue for a night race to be honest - maybe that is me being naive.

Our US brothers turn out and tune in to many a race that runs 'til late in the evening; so I think fans would not be a major stumbler: especially if you placed the night race before a non-school day: i.e. the Sunday of a bank holiday weekend or a Saturday evening.

Lighting the track would cost, but needn't necessarily be crippling. Plastic light columns and LEDs.

Stumbling blocks are likely with noise restrictions I should think: you'd be needing a circuit without near neighbours.

You'd also realistically be needing plenty of camping provision so folks aren't trying to drive home when tired out or on non existant public transport.