Mondini replaces Sharp at DPR

[Russfeld]

That'd be a fair analysis if both DPR cars were out of it, but Pla has comfortably had the measure of Sharp.

[jondownunder]

Pla has outqualified Sharp (often by some way) 6-1 this season, with three top 5 starts. Surely those qualifying positions, maybe more so than Pla's gifted race 2 wins, show that DPR can turn out a perfectly competitive car. If someone could list, race-by-race, any technical problems Ryan had in qualifying/races, then that might help defend him in a convincing way.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Russfeld

That'd be a fair analysis if both DPR cars were out of it, but Pla has comfortably had the measure of Sharp.

No he hasn't.... check the results and qualifying and rewind the races (up until a couple of events ago). He's span more times than a blind man racing on a wet track! Ryan didn't put his car off the track once.

[RSportRacer]

uve also got to look behind the scenes, Sharp may have had the budget to race but what about repairs?
Any driver will tell u he/she cannot go 10/10ths if they are thinking about accident damage.

If u were short on funds and couldn't afford to reshell or rebuild a car would u take the risks for those extra few 1000ths? and just maybe go off track and end up not being able to afford the repair bill. Im not just talking about the material cost the labour cost.

Just my 2p's worth

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Jock Loon

No he hasn't.... check the results and qualifying and rewind the races (up until a couple of events ago). He's spun more times than a blind man racing on a wet track! Ryan didn't put his car off the track once.

Maybe Ryan wasn't going quick enough to lose it....

[Jock Loon]

How did Mondini get on today? I never caught the race but he DNF'd yeah? Also qualified last. All this in the same car Ryan Sharp was using. All this must mean Mondini is a really cr@p driver seeing as he's in a decent car for a decent team

[Kicking-back]

Mondini has had no testing and was thrown in, but no, I don't think he's any better than Sharp.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Mondini has had no testing and was thrown in, but no, I don't think he's any better than Sharp.

Aye, but if Lewis Hamilton had rocked up at Hungary on the morning of qualifying, jumped in the car and had one installation lap, he'd of got pole though eh?

[Kicking-back]

No-one has ever said that.

You are just making yourself look silly now.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

No-one has ever said that.

You are just making yourself look silly now.

Nope, you two have been 'big uppin' Lewis... it was a play on the theme of that topic as quite obviously you reckon he's such a better driver.

[Kidzer]

Its their opinion that Lewis Hamilton is better than Ryan, doesnt mean he is, doesnt mean he isn't.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Kidzer

Its their opinion that Lewis Hamilton is better than Ryan, doesnt mean he is, doesnt mean he isn't.

It's not about the winning though Kidzer, it's the taking part that counts (allegedly).

Will be interesting to see if Mondini, who anyone who followed FRV6 last season will know is a pretty decent driver, can adapt to the increased power and cornering speeds the GP2 car chucks out.
Never followed the Renault World Series closely... does anyone know why he was last in the points table prior to his move to GP2? Certainly didn't expect to see him struggle.. perhaps he too ended up with a poor car and run of bad luck?

[GM Man]

I think you will find Mondini wasn't last in the points. He did have a few, while some drivers still don't.

When it comes to WSR you can quite clearly see the FRV6 teams having a hard time while the WSN teams are shining. Eurointernational are a good example. If you had put Sharp (or Kubica for that matter) in the EI car you wouldn't see many point coming out of it.

Some of you here (I have been following these discussions quietly) don't seem to get the bigger picture. The setups of different teams gives the drivers widely different handling cars. 10 of the 24 drivers in GP2 are fully capable of winning providing they are in the best car, especially with the nonsence reverse top 8 grid in race 2. At the moment ART are on top. Starting last and coming through to take a 1-2 in race 2 by finishing 4th and 5th in the first one. That is nothing short of incredible. Put Jani, Heikki, Pla, Sharp, Lapierre, Carrol, Piquet Jr etc in one of those cars and I am sure they to would have made it top 8 in the first race and in with a good chance of winning race 2.
Why? They are all good enough to extract the potential of the car, within a few tenths of each other. It is not an opinion. Ladies and gentlemen, it is fact.

There are bigger differences between the teams setups and the friction the cars generate than many of you think.

Back to V6. Jenzer last year where very good, especially first part of the season. No coincidence Sharp was leading the championship midway through. Some of the other teams cought up and Sharp cought some bad runs.
Mondini was driving steady, in his second year of the series. For some reason he was also killing everyone in all of the speed traps through out the year (about 3 km/h consistent), except after the last rebuild before the final in Dubai. And yes, they where all on the same wingsettings. Jani on the other hand, most poles and fastest laps also heading for the championship (but serious bad luck got in his way) was always the slowest of the top guys in the speedtraps. Except for the obvious Italian connection between the engine builder and Mondini himself, EuroInternational had a great race car. DAMS gave Jani a fantastic car and dispite his poor engine he was always right up there. Now...racing, you will be surprised to know, isn't always 100% fair on the driver OR the teams. Thankfully, most of the time it is.

No one in the sport was, for some of the above reasons, expecting Mondini to do well in WSR. They where however, for some of the above reasons, expecting Jani to do well in GP2 providing his was given a good enough car...and voila, bring on Hungaroring.

The truely special drivers will always find some way to shine during a season even when not in the best of equipment. However, put someone "just good" in a great car and you will see consistent good performance. And in GP2, the are many drivers who are "just good".

I could do this all night, but I will spare my keyboard for some replies...

[Go_For_Pole]

Actually, you shouldn't spare it, that was very intersting insight

[Mr Jinxx]

Can't argue with a single word of GM's post. The nub of it appears to be that any of the really good drivers - and there are lots of them - would be right up there winning races in the best set up cars. The differences between drivers would be a couple of tenths at most. The exceptional drivers will find some way to shine, to impress, even in a less competitive car. It's not always to easy to spot the exceptional drivers though. It's much easier to spot the drivers who are in the best cars and winning races, and to proclaim them exceptional, and to decry those who aren't.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by GM Man

No one in the sport was, for some of the above reasons, expecting Mondini to do well in WSR. They where however, for some of the above reasons, expecting Jani to do well in GP2 providing his was given a good enough car...and voila, bring on Hungaroring.

The truely special drivers will always find some way to shine during a season even when not in the best of equipment. However, put someone "just good" in a great car and you will see consistent good performance. And in GP2, the are many drivers who are "just good".

So what you're effectively saying is that there's more similarities between the FRV6 and GP2 than Nissan WS and FRV6? A good driver is a good driver in my opinion. That not only includes the ability to race competitively on any given Sunday, but their level of engineering input the team, adaptability to changing from one car to another, learning new tracks, coping with various track conditions etc etc.
Not puting words in your mouth, but are you suggesting Mondini is not the driver we may have thought and that Jani was seen as the better all round driver?

[RSportRacer]

getting back to DPR, they ran in FRV6 last year didnt they? How did they get on in that champ and didnt they have Rob Bell racing for them?

Looking back to FR when Rob Bell was with Motorworld and Firstair, he won was it 2 winter series. How did he do in the Fran Am or the main championships?
Now compare those results to his days in the DPR V6 car and u could find a comparison to Ryan Sharp.. both did well in FR2k in separate teams but when it came to the same team in higher championships how do they compare then?

Im may well be barking up the wrong tree

edit:

just found the results and found DPR came 8th overall in teams, Sharp 2nd and Bell 5th

oh look Mondini won it!

[Kicking-back]

I can see that's some evidence which says DPR are not necessarily consistently good - but they do show speed sometimes.

The question then is - do they prep one car better than the other, or do they run one driver who is better than the other.

[RSportRacer]

DPR's 2nd car was 14th i think, other was 5th

In all honesty and u guys gotta think about this, for a driver who won the FR2k champ (who gives a monkeys what country it was in) and then 2nd overall with i add a few wins, be lacking the speed in a champ that is not so disimilar to ones he had exceled in previously!??

Im not intending to join either the "Ryan is the greatest" or the "Ryan is rubbish camp" im staying impartial as i and im not the only one who doesnt know all the facts.

There are an infinate number of variables with racing as we all now, No4 and Mr Jinxx u have a direct insight to your sons careers and im sure u know how things can swing in roundabouts.

A few years ago i was involved in a championship, there were 2 teams very friendly.
This is national champ. The driver who won the last 2 championships offered to drive the other teams car at Rockingham. He said he couldnt drive the thing, he was so concerned about putting it in the wall due to its unstable handling that he parked up after 3 laps and advised the team to either completely rebuild or scrap the car.

Just goes to show 2 cars may look the same but if there preparation may not be as good as it should be.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by RSportRacer

In all honesty and u guys gotta think about this, for a driver who won the FR2k champ (who gives a monkeys what country it was in) and then 2nd overall with i add a few wins, be lacking the speed in a champ that is not so disimilar to ones he had exceled in previously!??

I think this sort of backs up what I was previously saying. You don't get shortlisted for the Autosport Young Driver of the Year Award for nowt.

Originally Posted by RSportRacer

A few years ago i was involved in a championship, there were 2 teams very friendly.
This is national champ. The driver who won the last 2 championships offered to drive the other teams car at Rockingham. He said he couldnt drive the thing, he was so concerned about putting it in the wall due to its unstable handling that he parked up after 3 laps and advised the team to either completely rebuild or scrap the car.
Just goes to show 2 cars may look the same but if there preparation may not be as good as it should be.

Yep, I know what you mean... it's a throwback to my comment on what makes a good all-round dirver. Some are good racers, but have a severe lack of technical knowledge. Damon Hill was a decent enough driver, happened to fall into a Williams seat at the right time when they were dominating. But he's a very respected motor racing man for his technical knowledge and feedback. In a lot of respects, this is the situation that unfurled with Ryan in that he's driven a lot of cars over the years and knows a lemon when he drives one. They used to try the most bizzare things in kart setup which you thought would never work, but it invariably did.
This might sound irrelavant but adds weight to the debate on whether DPR only concentrate on one car within their team.

[Kicking-back]

Is it possible that DPR tended to have more "traditional" ideas on car-setup, and dismissed Ryan's suggestions, which may have worked for him, without trying them?

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Is it possible that DPR tended to have more "traditional" ideas on car-setup, and dismissed Ryan's suggestions, which may have worked for him, without trying them?

The problems didn't surround setup though, it was mechanical gremlins such as engine, gearbox, electrical. Would've been nice to actually get a car that simply 'went' as Pla has got right now.

[Kicking-back]

Did DPR never think of giving Ryan a run in Pla's car at a test and vice-versa?

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Did DPR never think of giving Ryan a run in Pla's car at a test and vice-versa?

I'm not quite sure what good that would've achieved. Like I say, it was more issues surrounding the actual running of the car as to how it handled. I'm sure Ryan was more than capable of setting the car up once it was running correctly. Of course, they could have swapped motors and engineers, but then that's an admission of guilt that one part of the team is working and one aint.

[Kicking-back]

What that would have achieved was to give Ryan some mileage in a reliable car, if that's what the problem was.

Looking back over the year's sessions, I see Ryan did show a lot more flashes of speed early in the season, but of late he's been slower than Pla regularly and by a margin.

I suspect this may be - as Ryan has suggested himself - down to a loss of confidence because things had been going wrong with all the problems?