Mondini replaces Sharp at DPR

[Jock Loon]

I can't remember Ryan suggesting he had a loss of confidence due to things not going his way. I can remember him saying they were dissapointed in DPR and the way things were handled.

Ryan had intermitent problems initially, such as the eletrical fault whilst sitting 4th. Then the engine cut out on the grid when sitting 9th due to it overheating (which many drivers suffered from) as a result of two false starts.
It was the gearbox problems (suffered at Monaco) and then the dodgy engine that really was the final straw. I think the issues that were effecting all the teams could have been handled by simply biting your lip. It was when the team said that they had rid themselves of all the technical glitches (aided by the GP2 remods) that the team started to incur problems of their own making.

Like I said, swapping cars for a test or two would ultimately have solved nothing as initially, Pla was suffering similar glitches. It was a pity though that his problems dried up, allowing him to concentrate on track time and setup. Ryan hardly got a fair crack of it at any time other than the 1st couple of races, but at least showed he had the pace at times.

[Jackman]

Originally Posted by Jock Loon

I can't remember Ryan suggesting he had a loss of confidence due to things not going his way. I can remember him saying they were dissapointed in DPR and the way things were handled.

http://www.autosport-atlas.com/news.aspx?id=45835&s=10
"We were trying to get the most seat time last weekend [at Bilbao] to build my confidence, because my confidence has been knocked, and then to come here to a circuit that I know quite well and try and do a good job – it definitely wouldn't have been the best for me to sit at home after what happened at Silverstone."

[GM Man]

Originally Posted by Jock Loon

So what you're effectively saying is that there's more similarities between the FRV6 and GP2 than Nissan WS and FRV6? A good driver is a good driver in my opinion. That not only includes the ability to race competitively on any given Sunday, but their level of engineering input the team, adaptability to changing from one car to another, learning new tracks, coping with various track conditions etc etc.
Not puting words in your mouth, but are you suggesting Mondini is not the driver we may have thought and that Jani was seen as the better all round driver?

I will answear this, but not as you hoped. I think you may have misread what I wrote. I am not comparing FRV6-GP2 or WSN-FRV6. To reverse it for you. If Mondini had gone to GP2 beginning of the year, he would not have been expected to do very well based on his last few seasons and the behind-the-scenes facts of racing. However, if Jani would have gone off to WSR he would have been expected to do very well for the same reasons.

And so, yes I am suggesting that Mondini is not as good as Jani. But the differences are quite small. Mondini has proved he can be up there and win in a superior car (much like the ART drivers in GP2 at the moment). He can perform consistent. But given the same material as Jani he would always be behind. Back to the original concept of the sport today. It is not all down to the driver as some seem to think, it is a team effort. The driver is the singer in the band.

And before someone comes back and tries to prove Rosberg Jr and Premat are the best drivers in the world, come on. You have missed the point again. To do what they both did in their ART machines on Saturday/Sunday would not have been possible in any other GP2 car out there. You know it.

If it is still hard to grasp, here is a test. It will become clear.

How would you rate the following drivers and why:
Rosberg Jr
Premat
Kovalainen

[Kidzer]

In order of sheer ability:
Kovalainen
Premat
Rosberg Jr

AFAIK Rosberg won German FBMW then had 2 seasons of EuroF3 before now, correct?

[strider]

Originally Posted by Jock Loon

The problems didn't surround setup though, it was mechanical gremlins such as engine, gearbox, electrical. Would've been nice to actually get a car that simply 'went' as Pla has got right now.

If that's the case, I don't see how you can blame DPR. My biggest concern about GP2 is the lack of reliability in the areas you mention, e.g. Pla having to retire from the lead of the second race on Sunday. Scott Speed had a poor weekend for similar reasons.

The only exception to the rule seems to be ART, but who's to say what resources they may have access to? Even Arden were relatively slower with Kovalainen and he is arguably the best driver in the series.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by foxy mole

If that's the case, I don't see how you can blame DPR. My biggest concern about GP2 is the lack of reliability in the areas you mention, e.g. Pla having to retire from the lead of the second race on Sunday. Scott Speed had a poor weekend for similar reasons.

The only exception to the rule seems to be ART, but who's to say what resources they may have access to? Even Arden were relatively slower with Kovalainen and he is arguably the best driver in the series.

There's a bit more to it than meets the eye. I don't think Ryan's team would have pulled him out of DPR and GP2 if all the problems were 'teething' problems. That you can sort of handle. But to have recurring problems and unreliability for half a season is really not acceptable. The final straw was the lack of immediate attention paid to the engine problem. I guess to Ryan's sponsors it appeared they were not giving him value for money. Got to remember the budget these boys are running. Got to also remember that a team such as ART have a considerable higher budget than the likes of DPR. In every aspect of life though, you get what you pay for. But when you pay £1.99 for a cheesburger, you expect a just that, not just a bun with lettuce in it.
I'm not suggesting that some teams have more say in what goes on, well ok, I am. To hanker back to what I said in that henious thread that got closed, the top teams will command more say and have the 1st pick of the bits and bobs. No different in F1, F3000, MotoGP or FF.

[GM Man]

Originally Posted by Kidzer

In order of sheer ability:
Kovalainen
Premat
Rosberg Jr

AFAIK Rosberg won German FBMW then had 2 seasons of EuroF3 before now, correct?

Exactly. You just made my point. Also foxy mole.
For this reason it is wrong to say Kovalainen didn't win this weekend due being the slower driver. He just didn't have the car to do it.

If you were to put i.e. Ryan in the ART car there would be bags of points. Same goes for many of the drivers in GP2.

And this is why it is very hard to slag someone off after a poor season (the other topic on Ryan). Also the reason why it might be tricky to do the opposite (my Mondini example). Look at Liuzzi and Wirdheim. Both F3000 champions with Arden in big fashion. Right team at the right time. Two good drivers, but not special.

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by GM Man

Exactly. You just made my point. Also foxy mole.
For this reason it is wrong to say Kovalainen didn't win this weekend due being the slower driver. He just didn't have the car to do it.

If you were to put i.e. Ryan in the ART car there would be bags of points. Same goes for many of the drivers in GP2.

And this is why it is very hard to slag someone off after a poor season (the other topic on Ryan). Also the reason why it might be tricky to do the opposite (my Mondini example). Look at Liuzzi and Wirdheim. Both F3000 champions with Arden in big fashion. Right team at the right time. Two good drivers, but not special.

I don't think anyone was questioning this point of view, that given the right car, most drivers would do well.
To rewind to the basis of this thread though, it's about Mondini replacing Sharp. For me, it'll be very interesting to see how Mondini and DPR respond to matters. I mean, Mondini is no slouch, regardless of what he's been up to this season. I'll hang my coat on the fact he's a good racer (well, anyone who beats Ryan must be ).
DPR could look at Ryan's camp terminating their contract as bad PR. So perhaps they will pull out the stops to try and show that they are not just a 'one car team'? and prove wrong the theory Ryan has confronted them with (even though I know who's telling the truth in the matter).
I'm sure if Mondini has the right package, we'll see him up there. But should the rest of the season be a continuation of what happened to Ryan, with car failures galore, then it's very evident what the problem is.

It's a no win situation for Ryan as far as this season's GP2 is concerned in any case. The stigma of not coping with top drivers will be hard to shake, as ably pointed out by certain individuals on here who weren't prepared to look at the evidence for what it is (although that's their choice I guess).

[No 4]

The stigma of not coping with top drivers will be hard to shake, as ably pointed out by certain individuals on here who weren't prepared to look at the evidence for what it is (although that's their choice I guess).

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Does this mean that Jock has at long last accepted that other people are entitiled to there opinions, even if they differ from his? If yes, we're making progress!!!

[Jock Loon]

Originally Posted by No 4

The stigma of not coping with top drivers will be hard to shake, as ably pointed out by certain individuals on here who weren't prepared to look at the evidence for what it is (although that's their choice I guess).

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Does this mean that Jock has at long last accepted that other people are entitiled to there opinions, even if they differ from his? If yes, we're making progress!!!

What it means is that I never once indicated that I disagreed with the issue some may look at things in a different light, of course they are entitled to that opinion. What got my goat was the reasoning those individuals were coming up with when I was producing some pretty concrete evidence in his defence. Those not party to the info supplied are entitled to think Ryan has goofed off due to not hacking it. I realise sometimes it's difficult to change your tact straight away, and sometimes you need a day or two to let things sink in and reflect on new information. In such a heated debate, it's easy to dig your heals in, hence the reason I was getting rather heated. I apologise if you found that distasteful.
To summarise then, many will just look at the results section and presume Ryan was simply a poor driver in a field of top talent. Those of you who have a slightly more broad view of motorsport may think otherwise, which was the point I was trying to get over.

[No 4]

Jock - being honest I was just pulling your leg. However, to afford your comments the curtesy of a serious response, I have no problem with people having firmly held convictions, as long as they accept that other posters may have different opinions.

This said, I do acknowledge that there are posters on here who table opinions without any knowledge of the true facts of the issues under discussion (my son is a driver and I've had people telling me what happened in a particular situation, when I was there and they weren't). However, I guess that's almost inevitable on a forum like this, where people directly involved in the sport are sharing opinions with 'arm-chair' critics!!