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Old 8 Feb 2018, 17:25 (Ref:3799647)   #16
Mike Bell
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Appears there’s more changes from Masters, according a report in Autosport today- Specifically Historic F1.....

First is a separate season championship trophy for the over 60s! With an influx of hotshoes driving for owners, that’s a good move for the older or indeed pensioner owner-driver.

Second, the grid for the second HF1 race at meetings will be reversed, but only the top 8. Without looking, I’m not sure if the second race grid is based on the result of race 1 or qualifying.

Third, and perhaps the most interesting, is that overtaking will not be allowed in a race until after the first corner. This will hopefully reduce the chance of car damage and possible driver injury, Masters say.

Last edited by Mike Bell; 9 Feb 2018 at 06:08. Reason: Sp
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 17:44 (Ref:3799653)   #17
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This will hopefully reduce the chance of car damage and possible driver injury
The first corner was the finish line for many cars during the few races I watched. What a wreck!

Do you remember an Aston beating all the Jag's during last Classic? May be this particular one will be ballasted with its FE?
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 18:35 (Ref:3799664)   #18
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Robyn Slater should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Perhaps banning the use of dog boxes in fia minis should also be considered.
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 18:45 (Ref:3799669)   #19
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Do you remember an Aston beating all the Jag's during last Classic?
That was in Pre ‘63 where the Jags are earlier homologation spec. Plus the winning ‘Project’ AM was driven by a couple of the best historic racers out there.
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3799670)   #20
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Perhaps banning the use of dog boxes in fia minis should also be considered.
Not got one in the anglebox then Robyn? Glad you’re still about, BTW!
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Old 8 Feb 2018, 19:37 (Ref:3799687)   #21
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Not got one in the anglebox then Robyn? Glad you’re still about, BTW!
HRSR regs allow them

I've been lurking of late.
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Old 9 Feb 2018, 05:28 (Ref:3799776)   #22
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HRSR regs allow them
I knew that- just winding you up.....
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Old 13 Feb 2018, 08:12 (Ref:3800887)   #23
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
and Cortinas etc . . . although I believe its much more commonplace to just have a fresh box every session, its so easy to change, its a simple way to spent an extra grand.

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Perhaps banning the use of dog boxes in fia minis should also be considered.
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Old 13 Feb 2018, 08:23 (Ref:3800888)   #24
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Ruling engines by the number and per season is not easy, what is going to be sealed and how is it going to be policed, that is the answer. To my belief and I was behind the desk when that rule was introduced back in 2015 already, it is a matter of saying "there is control" rather than truly controlling the problem of engine development if I may say. As it turned out, some used more than 2 engines already back in 2015 and it has been going on ever since then I guess.

On REV limits, we will see what it brings, we are enforcing it in the FIA Sports Car Championship from this year and accross the whole scope of cars and engines with the responsibility being on the Competitor to police his throttle and us to verify he respects it. We will see how it goes but in Touring Cars, i believe it's a way forward. Some of the recent development have gone through the roof in terms of REVS and short engine life for the sake of horsepower, time to limit it and keep it period in a way...

On the Minis, I would not only look at dog boxes but also at gear ratios they are using... It goes beyond gear engagement, trust me...
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Old 13 Feb 2018, 17:22 (Ref:3801055)   #25
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For several years, VdeV has been limiting the revs to 8k (protos with Honda engine) after discussions with the teams. Worked fine.
The 6,5 k mark for the Jag's seems period correct but not that generous. All in all a good move forward if common sens prevails.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 08:36 (Ref:3801218)   #26
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MartinH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
With these new rev limits there may well be a lot of hi lift, long overlap camshafts up for sale on e-bay very soon !

Although the idea seems very good, it can be a bit of a double edged sword ; will Carol's U2TC & other series , plus the 6hrs follow (or be forced to follow) suit ? If not, then those competing in non rev-limited races, with money, will just have one or 2 engines and diffs of above & below 8K spec. Those that can't do that & are stuck with 8K spec engines won't be competitive in a free revs race.

The only reason I stopped racing 5 years ago was money & this may further drive out other privateers who would still like to race internationally or in a mixture of race series.

Additionally, running engines up to rev limiters is not always so good for those engines & could further increase costs & reduce reliability. Again, those with the money will flat shift against the limiter & pay the rebuild costs & those with less will go easy & lose time.

At the end of the day, everyone is free to compete or not & it seems no matter what rules & regs are put in place, it's the big budget guys that come out on top, but they & the organisers, do still need the little guys to fill out the entry for things to remain healthy.

Any thoughts on that ??

Martin
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 09:55 (Ref:3801243)   #27
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Martin, like you, cost has driven me away as a regular, everything else is driving me further away as I don't see the point in trying to compete from my end of the scale. We used to do International weekends . . . we probably won't be allowed on the Continent soon!

as far as Revs go . . . . I retuned my Cortina engine a few years back, more torque, less revs, limit at 7500, peak power at 6900. I finally cracked under 60s at Brands and into 3:13's at Spa, all in a standard production car, no tricks required. . . . all factory running gear, clearly 15s off U2TC race winning pace @ Spa, but I was happy!
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 11:00 (Ref:3801269)   #28
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apriliadriver should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
MartinH is right. I gave up U2TC a few years ago (Alfa GTA). I knew I was not going any slower (or quicker !) but I was sliding down the finishing order inexorably. I knew my car was not super-tuned and it was more standard than most. The influx of money does not just affect the performance levels of the cars, but things like entry fees : Carol knew that for the well-heeled, the difference between a £500 entry fee and a £1200 fee was nothing. But it was to me, trying to do a full season of U2TC. I cannot criticise her for that - if I was running a series I would have gone down that route, I am sure.
So if you can't afford it, you can't race. It was ever thus.
The thing is, when a financial crisis hits the West, some of these guys will evaporate, not to be seen again - for example 1991/2001/2008 and so on.

Do the less well-off return then ? Probably not because the cars stay as highly-tuned and the circuit fees get higher and so on, one-way ratchet. Like most freelancers, my day rates did not change between 2008 and 2018 but the costs rose : I was one of the lucky ones.

A lot of sports start simple with plenty of entrants and a huge crowd who say " ...they're just like me ..." or "...maybe I'll have a go ..." or "...I know him and him..." . Over the years, the simplicity goes, the entrants/driver get wealthier, the crowds get smaller. That's the story of our sport.
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Old 14 Feb 2018, 13:58 (Ref:3801297)   #29
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Nick, Like you, and our Friend Justin . . . we seem to be earning less than we did 12 years ago . . . I remember us being close to top 10 when U2TC started . . .

If I was allowed, I'd sell my Cortina, its a mere museum piece at present.

A (half) sensible GT car is a far more universal proposition, and can be used on the road as well!
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Old 15 Feb 2018, 08:18 (Ref:3801496)   #30
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Guys,

I've tried motor sport and I thought, too much money involved, too much development, not sustainable if you can't follow the development game and so on. I then switched to other sports, endurance running first and then triathlon. I figured out it's the same everywhere and as one said once, it's all about what you are ready to do perform and what you will be satisfied with. I just figured out I love competing and just like a good engine is part of a performance it's also about getting the whole package right. No win comes from a single parameter, it's all of them altogether that produces the result so in my case, coaching, training, food, recovery, shoes, bike, and so on all have a part to play into the game. And it will always be like this, anywhere. It's not because it look simple or cheap that it will be..!

Back to motor sport and here speaking. The good point from REV limits is that it will stop the nonsense of people selling REVS to their customers. REVS are costly but as Zef' figured out and he knows his thing, it's torque that gets you out of the corners, and it was already the case back in 1965 as Carroll would say.

What I think will come out is more camshaft work and another way to develop and sell. The good guys have already been on torque for years so that's not going to change the order but in a way, the nonsense of a twin-cam with extra 200 REVS and supposedly 2HP more will stop.

Other than REVS, what really sticks out of the establishment to me is the freeing of exhaust manifolds on Mustangs in Masters Pre-66 TCs. Freeing this parameter might bring Mustangs closer to the Falcons, strangely some were already ahead but now these being fully free and I mean only controlled by the words "may use fabricated tubular steel exhaust headers but are not required to do so". That can cause serious developments... Way more serious than the wildest homologated tubular manifold on a Falcon...

Control is a lifestyle, it must be anytime, anyday and with common sense, that's what regulations are for. Freeing one or another parameter may well produce the needed result but there are always further implications just like there are afterthoughts to any decision..!
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