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Old 24 Feb 2004, 20:06 (Ref:884420)   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by graves
looks a little strange to me. Seems to be no angle on it at all. Almost plain. Wotcha think?
I have heard speculation that that mid-wing doesn't create and downforce in and of itself, but that is a flow routing device that improves the flow to the rear wing (similar to the idea of turning vanes or barge boards)...

No idea if that is true or not, though... it's leading edge is a fairly big radius, I should think there is a fair amount of drag associated with that little winglet...



EDIT: Oops, I see Chappelli just posted the same thing...


Last edited by shiny side up!; 24 Feb 2004 at 20:08.
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 20:15 (Ref:884431)   #27
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Originally posted by Chappelli
So maybe it isn't designed to provide downforce.. Maybe it's designed to clean up turbulent air over the rear wing??
An interesting idea.

When McLaren tried one a few years back there was suggestions that it was also used to aid the flow to the engine (it was when we had those daft holes in the back of the engine cover).
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 20:19 (Ref:884438)   #28
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Surely it would have been impossible?
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 20:30 (Ref:884445)   #29
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Well wings are all about speeding up and slowing down the air flow, so why not?
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 20:32 (Ref:884448)   #30
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Yes, but the McLaren wing would have deflected the air more away from the engine cover cut outs than into them surely???

Bloody engineers.....too darn clever for my liking!
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 21:01 (Ref:884473)   #31
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It certainly seems to be one of those downforce-less wings which serve to smooth airflow to the rear wing proper (as others have said):
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 21:10 (Ref:884485)   #32
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jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well now that I've seen a picture (thank you Glen), I don't see how they are any different from other aero bits that protrude from the car (ie. like the aero devices on the sidepods). I would tend to agree that these are meant for moving air to other more vital areas of the car.
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 21:20 (Ref:884497)   #33
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It does have a little shape and the little lip at the rear (a baby gurney type thing). Perhaps both reasons.
Quote:
Originally posted by knowlesy
Yes, but the McLaren wing would have deflected the air more away from the engine cover cut outs than into them surely???

Bloody engineers.....too darn clever for my liking!
It was probably more to do with creating a high pressure area inside the air box rather than any deflection.

I know little about it to be fair.
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 21:30 (Ref:884507)   #34
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Hugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Whatever the deal you can bet that its been thoroughly tested in a wind tunnel and does something to justify it's additional weight.

I reckon from the profile its providing some downward force rather than just air clean up. As ever they are messing with 100th's of a second per lap.

Or perhaps it's a new aero feature designed to fall off MS's car in Australia this year!
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 23:34 (Ref:884689)   #35
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Being so close to the camera mount, has it got someting to do with smoothing the airflow round that?
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Old 24 Feb 2004, 23:52 (Ref:884705)   #36
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not all cars run with the camera mount every race do they?
is so what is the penalty with that/ or is aero designed with the mount in mind?
if a given car is successful what do they keep redesigning the whole bloody thing for? wy no do small up dates
of course i suppose a small update here changes the whole flow and then its a whole new car eventually eh?
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 00:45 (Ref:884746)   #37
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Nizmo32_josh should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Like most aero aids placed in the general area of the airbox, i see it being banned.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 01:13 (Ref:884755)   #38
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Interesting that you would add drag to reduce turbulance. Would be nice to see from the back stait on to see
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 01:16 (Ref:884756)   #39
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Just looked again, it could clean up the air to increase the effectiveness of the rear wing. Or it could be there as a lark to make us run around in circles speculating. I love f1
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:14 (Ref:884782)   #40
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This could be good or bad news for Ferrari fans.
The Good.
Ferrari are happy with what they have and are trying things for eveluation.
The Bad.
Ferrari have downforce problems and are trying everything for a fix.
Personally I am thinking The Good

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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:23 (Ref:884786)   #41
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Chappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridChappelli should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Good call "ysofast"... Williams have got the tusks.. Ferrari have got the Viking Horns!!!! (A bit of one-up-manship maybe!)

I guess we'll have to wait and see if it's on the car at Melbourne.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 02:36 (Ref:884793)   #42
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could the basic car be lacking downforce? that usually why designers start hanging ugly wings on the thing.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 10:32 (Ref:885047)   #43
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
.

i think this wing is to produce downforce rather than purely to smooth airflow to the rear wing.
look at the difference in the top and bottom curve, the bottom is larger so it should produce downforce by Bernoulli's theorum.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 10:35 (Ref:885049)   #44
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
sorry about this, it was supposed to be in the 'Ferrari test mid-wing' thread, i must've clicked post new thread instead of post reply, sorry mods, can you move it please!
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 10:43 (Ref:885057)   #45
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sorry about this, it was supposed to be in the 'Ferrari test mid-wing' thread, i must've clicked post new thread instead of post reply, sorry mods, can you move it please!
Done and I agree the shape certainly looks like it would produce downforce. The air has to travel further (so will do it quicker) around the bottom of the wing.

A wing doesn't have to have angle to produce downforce. It has to have shape.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 12:28 (Ref:885145)   #46
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Originally posted by AdamAshmore
When McLaren tried one a few years back there was suggestions that it was also used to aid the flow to the engine (it was when we had those daft holes in the back of the engine cover).
IIRC this was a the begining of '95, when the teams were forced to run the cut-outs in the airboxs to reduce engine power (much like the current IRL ruling). Both McLaren and Bennetton (and therefore also Liger ) were aparently flunting the ruling, by creating engine covers with the cut outs in (I think, dang not having an aero degree...) area's of high pressure, sucking the air through, and feeding more air into the airbox, hance negating the effect of the holes!

Again, IIRC, the Mclaren had them atop of their cover, just in front of the mid wing, whilst bennetton had them on a little step, near to the top of the cover. (I'll see if i can dig up some photos)

And I would have to say that the Ferrai one does look like it's a downforce creating device.

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Old 25 Feb 2004, 12:45 (Ref:885154)   #47
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notice the step right in front of the mid wing, thats your hole...
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 13:20 (Ref:885181)   #48
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Does it actually add stability to the car in corners?

I don't know, but adding wings doesn't impress me as much as a new designed and integrated item (ie task, cokebottled rear, swoppy sidepods, etc)
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 13:24 (Ref:885184)   #49
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Check that McLaren wing - that's downforce creating in the proper sense. This Ferrari one does have a slight wing profile, but I doubt that the downforce created is significant, because the shape is extremely mild - so I still think that it's primary function must be airflow management. Possibly an area of slightly lower pressure either side of the airbox causes air from around the driver's head and the cockpit area to accelerate - somthing like that. For downforce i'm pretty sure it would have endplates and a much more aggressive shape and angle, and also some facility to adjust it.
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Old 25 Feb 2004, 13:43 (Ref:885202)   #50
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Don't forget though, that the McLaren wing is smaller (width wise, about 50cm instead of the 60 on the fezza) than the ferrari ones, so would have to run a larger section to create as muh downforce.


I don't know, The more i think about the more conflicting the function of the ferrari wing seems (downforce v airflow managment), too many questions, not enough answers!
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