Cadwell Park Tradegy

[Truckosaurus]

Well said LLoyd, I was at Cadwell earlier this year when there was a nasty smash in the TVR Tasmins in the wet on the pit straight just up from the little grandstand on the outside of the circuit, and I was disappointed that a number of people actually made the effort to walk up closer to the crash scene to get a better look.

[Chris Gray]

Well said f1lloyd. I kept well away from the crash site on Sunday. Not only is it unfair to watch people being taken away in ambulances but it can only prove a distraction from the marshals/medics' jobs if they have people gorping.

[Chris Gray]

Just to add to what I already put, I was quite surprised that specatators were going up and taking photos of the crash scene. As an amatuer photographer myself, I draw the line when I see that drivers are actually injured.

[f1lloyd]

The spectators actions on Sunday reminded me of a bike accident we had at Cadwell earlier on this year, the rider was obviously seriously injured, and because the crowd were stood watching, the medics had to mess around holding white sheets up to stop people watching.
It happened right near the clubhouse, and people were stood outside watching, and it took one of the marshals walking along the track telling people to go away before people started to disperse.

The guy died in hospital.

I think its pretty wierd that people could stand and watch when its obvious that the rider/driver is in serious trouble. If there was a car accident on the road, i can't imagine people would stand and watch the emergency services then, so why should it be any different at a race track?

[Ian-S]

It amazes me too when people stand there looking, but let's face it, not may people outside of this sport have seen someone die infront of their eyes directly, by that I mean actually being there, not on TV, so it is kind of a natural reaction to want to have a look.

But it's a memory they'll never forget and will regret doing forever.

[EvilPumpkin]

I think it's a kind of morbid fascination - after all, most of these people have watched any number of "Havok" videos. They're probably expecting the driver/rider to jump up and wave to the crowd. I don't think an average spectator that goes to 3 or 4 events a year and religiously watches Men & Motors when the crash vids are on realises that Havok only show the stuff where people do walk away - and that incidents where people don't walk away exist.

In the majority of cases, they probably have no idea that there is a serious injury or death involved - and by the time they do realise it, they don't know how to walk away. Maybe I'm just deluding myself that most people are basically nice, but that's what I've always thought to be the case.

[Tony_J]

Yet another racing tragedy robs us of two enthusiatic club drivers. Unfortunately after such events its natural to blame the circuit. Sadly no motor racing circuit is safe and most have a record of deaths and serious injuries. Acres of gravel traps and huge tyres walls do not a safe circuit make. Just think about being upside down in a single seater in a deep gravel trap or the wheel flipping off backwards as a car hits the tyre wall. Both of the situations have resulted in tradgeies in the recent past. All we can pray for is that these accidents remain as isolated incidents and give special thought to those bereaved and the officials who had to deal with the situation

[Peter Scillitoe]

Originally posted by f1lloyd
I think its pretty wierd that people could stand and watch when its obvious that the rider/driver is in serious trouble. If there was a car accident on the road, i can't imagine people would stand and watch the emergency services then, so why should it be any different at a race track?

A few weeks ago we had a serious looking accident at Brands, with a young driver trapped in a car and in a lot of pain and discomfort. The nearest spectators (all 2 of them) remained in their chairs and tried not to watch the proceedings. However, some distance away on Southbank,a group of spectators did stand and stare at the emergency crews, medics and marshals at work. No problem as they could not really see anything anyway due to distance. However, marshals did point out to me a respectable middle aged gent who had a pair of binoculars permanently trained on the incident scene, and a young lad with him (I guess about 12 years old) who had a scanner.

As those who marshal with me know, I rarely loose my cool. BUT, that day I did. I went across and asked the 'gent' what the ******* hell he thought he was doing, and - if he had a serious accident on the M25 on the way home after the meeting would he like to see the marshals and competitors standing around viewing the crash scene through binoculars (other expletives deleted)? He went bright red in the face, and he and the lad disappeared quickly.

[Maisie]

I have to admit to watching a few incidents through binoculars, but only because I hate not knowing whether the injured person is OK. I'd rather see what's going on, if possible, and get some sort of idea whether he or she is out of the car / on their feet / on a stretcher / moving etc. I have only run to a crash once to see what was going on, and that was a) because I knew the driver involved, and b) I'd already ascertained from a distance that the driver was out of the car and moving OK, although stretchered off. I hate seeing the trackside vultures tearing off to the side of the track to peer at the incident - the worst I've ever seen was at Brands, when a group of CHILDREN came rushing over to peer at the marshals tending to an incident that happened right in front of the South Bank. The driver was leaning against the fencing nearest the banking, and the kids were standing right on the other side of the fence. I had to wonder what sort of parents would let their kids gawp at an incident which could well, given the on-track events, have been very serious, and could have given them a view they didn't want to see. If an accident occurs, I say stay WELL AWAY and let the marshals, doctors and other incident officers get on with their work, and give the driver some privacy.

[Chris Y]

If there was a car accident on the road, i can't imagine people would stand and watch the emergency services then..

The thing is - people do.. When there's been an accident on the motorway, generally the traffic backs up for miles as the drivers slow down to have a good luck. Often there's a few rear-enders as people are watching the accident scene and not the road in front of them. That really p****s me off.

[Morris 1100]

I usualy rush to the scene of a bad accident.......






Because I drive the FIV.

[Hobson]

What I have seen at Cadwell at bike meetings and at the Radio Control Model Car races I do, is children who shout and cheer at accidents.

Utter stupidity.

What kind of parents would let their kids do that? I would never EVER let my kids do that/

[f1lloyd]

Problem is, even if the driver/rider does die at a place like Cadwell, and doesn't die instantly, then if you are just a spectator then you won't hear about it, and assume that they were alright. If someone from down south came to watch the 750 MC, they might not even know the drivers died, unless they got a copy of Autosport.

For that particular incident, the 'Grimsby Evening Telegraph', which is based only 20 miles away from Cadwell, only gave about 8 lines to the crash, and then probably another 20 when the drivers were named. I don't know about the Louth paper.

[Piglet]

I got a mouthful of abuse from a team member (not a member of Shane's team) at Donington last year when I asked him not to stand in the middle of the pit lane with his binoculars focussed on Shane Blands crash at the first corner ).

Had a similar experience at Oulton Park with the TVR incident that ended up in the entrance to the pit lane - we had formed a line of marshals to stop anyone getting near the incident and myself and another female marshal were insulted by someone from a team who "just wanted to see". He got to "what are you going to do to stop me" to which my answer was "I'll take your permanent pass number I'll go to Race Control and give it to the Clerk of the Course who will take it away from you!!"

I can understand people being distressed/interested if it is someone they know involved but this did not seem to be the case in either of these instances.

[Woolley]

I'm just returned from holiday, and so have only just heard the terrible news. Condolences to the families, and my hopes that the officials are coping with the shock.

On the subject of spectators, we have to remember that while many watch the racing, it is the shunts that really excite them, but they hope no-one is injured. They will probably never see an accident on the road, and if they couldn't see what happened, they will rush to see the aftermath to try and work it out - why else does Tv show action replays? As a marshal now, and before as a spectator, I have always taken a close interest in the progress of a rescue. Why? Because I'm looking for the signs that tell me the persons involved are ok. Some people will undoubtedly have a mawkish interest, but the majority will only be hoping for good news. Most spectators will never even have seen a driver injured. It doesn't occur to them that it may happen while they are watching, and they don't realise how offensive their actions may appear. They may well be anxious themselves, and abuse from us not only will offend, but makes us look unproffesional, possibly giving the impression that the marshals at the scene are similarly unprofessional. It is difficult, but try to gently point out their actions are inappropriate and reaasure them that the safety crews are taking the greatest care, even if you suspect the worst. I hope I'm never involved in such an incident, but one of the hardest tasks I performed was at the GP when a five year old dressed in Schumi regalia was inconsolable and his family were desperate for information. I hadn't any, but an explanation of the steps that would be taken distracted the spectators around me from watching too closely.

[EvilPumpkin]

Agreed Woolley - I've always found the best way to keep people occupied and out from under foot is to explain to them what's happening. I've found this particularly effective when dealing with agitated team and family members (usually they're both at the same time) who've managed to make it to the scene of an incident. It was a technique that our rescue crew chief recommended during training and it's never failed me yet. Just tell them in a calm voice, and keep repeating if necessary, exactly what's happening. Particularly things like "when there's been a heavy impact, a spinal board and collar will be used as a precaution - it doesn't mean there's a spinal injury"