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Old 1 Dec 2019, 21:07 (Ref:3944130)   #1501
Petoli
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Originally Posted by Pickles View Post
As has been said there now isn't a suitable engine available, unless they use the 2.0t that was used in the Insignia GSi. Vauxhall aren't part of Fiat Chrysler so couldn't use any of their engines.
Does the engine have to be available on the UK Market? Although they no longer Vauxhall The Astra/Insignia still uses an engine designed when it was owned by General Motors if GM have a 2.0 Litre version of that engine in the US could they use it? They would be using an engine from the same family. Or would that not be allowed because Vauxhall are now owned by PSA they would have to use an 2.0 litre engine from PSA. although does Peugeot/Citreon have 2.0 litre engine?

Although most normal family have started to move away from larger engines, i wonder if at some point in the future the NGTC engines will be 1.4 or something
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Old 1 Dec 2019, 21:30 (Ref:3944136)   #1502
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
That 2 litre does not exist anymore other than in second hand motor cars and no doubt there will be a few complete assemblies in a warehouse somewhere for warranty claims.

Anything in the rules to stop a team fitting a smaller capacity motor?
From the technical regs:

'350+bhp 2-litre turbo-charged direct-injection engine with ‘fly by wire’ throttle control
Low cost to develop, build, buy and maintain – either by teams and/or race engine-builders developing their own, or through lease/purchase of the 2017 revised specification TOCA-BTCC Swindon prepared engine
Engine can be sourced from a manufacturer’s broad ‘family’ range, including subsidiary marques under their effective control
Common Owen Developments turbo charger and PWR intercooler to be used by all cars'

So no, has to be a 2 litre.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 05:04 (Ref:3944160)   #1503
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Originally Posted by Petoli View Post
Does the engine have to be available on the UK Market?
Homologation regs state:

 The engine has a production minima of 2,500 from the manufacturers family of marques.
 The family being freely on sale in the UK through the manufacturers normal dealer network.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 07:11 (Ref:3944174)   #1504
billy bleach
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billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There seems to be a huge discussion about PMR doing their own motor. All on the basis of a throw away line from Plato. Has anyone considered the cost involved?! All that effort and then if it is good it will be BOP'd At least with the
TOCA motor there is no chance of being pegged back. Maybe they are working on better insulation? Wet there Mercedes rumours a year ago that also made no sense
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 07:36 (Ref:3944176)   #1505
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Alfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Given BOP is a thing I see very little sense in spending a sack of cash on an engine. Blow the competition away and your boost is turned down.

Although Welch (wrongly in my opinion) reckoned the TOCA units were so expensive it made sense to develop their own. Which all went rather badly...
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 08:01 (Ref:3944179)   #1506
Pickles
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I think we all know that PMR probably won't be developing their own engine, the discussion was more about what base engines are available etc. Plato has only done what he always does, chuck an idea out there which people then start talking about.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 08:11 (Ref:3944184)   #1507
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think at some point TOCA will need to revisit this 2.0L engine requirement. I'd say that the majority of new petrol engined cars are of a smaller capacity (1.2 - 1.8L).
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 08:23 (Ref:3944189)   #1508
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Originally Posted by billy bleach View Post
There seems to be a huge discussion about PMR doing their own motor. All on the basis of a throw away line from Plato. Has anyone considered the cost involved?! All that effort and then if it is good it will be BOP'd At least with the
TOCA motor there is no chance of being pegged back. Maybe they are working on better insulation? Wet there Mercedes rumours a year ago that also made no sense
This is a good point. It's probably Plato just angling towards a boost for the TOCA engine vs. others.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 09:24 (Ref:3944203)   #1509
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RS67 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRS67 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Sodemo View Post
I think at some point TOCA will need to revisit this 2.0L engine requirement. I'd say that the majority of new petrol engined cars are of a smaller capacity (1.2 - 1.8L).
The 2.0 capacity was originally chosen over the FIA's decision to use 1.6 because it is a lot less expensive to get 350-380bhp from 2.0 than 1.6 and the engine should still remain reliable and as such last a season. To reduce capacity would require permanent use of the hybrid system that we have coming in the future. Toca would need to give teams several years notice of such plans of a reduction in engine size. As the idea of NGTC was to keep costs down, I think there is more likely a chance of engine regs being relaxed slightly allowing for engine capacity to be altered to achieve a 2.0 capacity, just as they did with Super Touring engines.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 09:40 (Ref:3944205)   #1510
antnee
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Originally Posted by antnee View Post
Most manufacturers do have 2.0T's in serial production - off the top of my head, Toyota, BMW/Mini, VAG, Mercedes, Honda, Ford, Renault, Kia/Hyundai, Jaguar - only real notable exceptions are Vauxhall/PSA (which puts a downer on JP's wish for PMR to build their own engines )
From earlier in this topic - most manufacturers do still have a 2.0. I think within a few years it will become a problem though.

Isn't the TOCA engine based on an old Vauxhall unit anyway?
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 09:52 (Ref:3944209)   #1511
Johno.UK
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http://www.btcc.net/2019/12/02/toca-...nship-entries/


So Sutton racing under a BMR tbl as people suspected. Also an extra one (from the sale of the old Moffat Mercedes package) for BTC.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 09:53 (Ref:3944211)   #1512
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
The 2.0 capacity was originally chosen over the FIA's decision to use 1.6 because it is a lot less expensive to get 350-380bhp from 2.0 than 1.6 and the engine should still remain reliable and as such last a season. To reduce capacity would require permanent use of the hybrid system that we have coming in the future. Toca would need to give teams several years notice of such plans of a reduction in engine size. As the idea of NGTC was to keep costs down, I think there is more likely a chance of engine regs being relaxed slightly allowing for engine capacity to be altered to achieve a 2.0 capacity, just as they did with Super Touring engines.
I understand and agree with everything you said, however the TCR regs state a 1.6 engine and they produce 350+ BHP. How reliable are they and what are the comparable costs? It seems like they do endurance races fine and can be run on a "relatively small" budget from what I gather.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 10:01 (Ref:3944214)   #1513
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Evantra should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridEvantra should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Johno.UK View Post
http://www.btcc.net/2019/12/02/toca-...nship-entries/


So Sutton racing under a BMR tbl as people suspected. Also an extra one (from the sale of the old Moffat Mercedes package) for BTC.
Looks like 3 BTC Hondas (Cook, Smiley, Chilton?) is the only change. Motorbase still with 3, despite losing a title sponsor, and Simpson still there.

Is this a definite entry list?
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 10:04 (Ref:3944215)   #1514
touring fan01
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touring fan01 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
Looks like 3 BTC Hondas (Cook, Smiley, Chilton?) is the only change. Motorbase still with 3, despite losing a title sponsor, and Simpson still there.

Is this a definite entry list?
yes. they cant change now.
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Old 2 Dec 2019, 10:04 (Ref:3944216)   #1515
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TeamCarDriverNotes
    
Confirmed Entries   
Excelr8Hyundai i30Smith ?Confirmed in press release - want to retain driver lineup
Excelr8Hyundai i30Osborne ?Confirmed in press release - want to retain driver lineup
Team DynamicsHonda CivicCammish2yr contract confirmed in press release
Team DynamicsHonda CivicNealConfirmed as driver pairing in press release
WSRBMW 330iOliphantReported as continuing next year with the team
WSRBMW 330i???On TBL Entry List
WSRBMW 330i???On TBL Entry List
Power MaxedVauxhall ?PlatoTalked about engine / chassis developments for 2020 in interview
Power MaxedVauxhall ????On TBL Entry List
SpeedworksToyota CorollaIngramConfirmed Ginsters backing for 2020 in article
Laser Tools (Aiden Moffat Racing)Infiniti Q50MoffatConfirmed in press release
Laser Tools (Team BMR)Infiniti Q50SuttonConfirmed in press release
Ciceley MotorsportMB A-Class ?RowbottomConfirmed entry in Facebook post
Ciceley MotorsportMB A-Class ?MorganBrands Hatch summary confirms 2020 return
HARDVW CCGoffOn BTCC.net (and others)
HARDVW CCBushellOn BTCC.net (and others)
HARDVW CC???On TBL Entry List
HARDVW CC???On TBL Entry List
AmD (Cobra)Honda CivicNot 2019 driver(s)Confirmed in social media post
AmD (Cobra)Honda CivicNot 2019 driver(s)Confirmed in social media post
AmD (Trade Price)??????On TBL Entry List
AmD (Trade Price)??????On TBL Entry List
BTC RacingHonda CivicSmiley?Social media post said returning, with picture of cars and drivers
BTC RacingHonda CivicCook?Social media post said returning, with picture of cars and drivers
BTC RacingHonda Civic???On TBL Entry List
MotorbaseFord Focus???On TBL Entry List
MotorbaseFord Focus???On TBL Entry List
MotorbaseFord Focus???On TBL Entry List
Simpson RacingHonda Civic?Simpson?On TBL Entry List - Rumoured to have vocalised a withdrawal
Team ParkerBMW ????On TBL Entry List
    
Likely Entries   
    
Possible Entries   
???Jag ?CreesRumoured by Crees in a Facebook interview
WSR?BMW 330i?JordanLost Pirtek sponsorship, says he wants to stay in the BTCC, but only with WSR
Not Motorbase???ChiltonHas been critical of the Focus in the press
??????EdwardsHas stated that she no longer drives in Clio Cup. Website is worded to suggest she is on the grid for 2020
HARDVW CCThompson?Claims to have exciting 2020 news on social media soon
HARDVW CCCoates?Gilham #tagging?
HARDVW CCCrees?tags HARD on social media
    
Entries with doubt   
??????SheddenSpeculation about wanting a return
??????M.JacksonLinked to half of the teams on the grid
??????BlundellStated that he is undecided about a 2020 return
???Subaru Levorg???Car not viable as NGTC entry
???Subaru Levorg???Car not viable as NGTC entry
???MB A-Class???Car on sale from Laser Tools
???MG6???Excelr8 switched to Hyundai
???MG6???Excelr8 switched to Hyundai
    
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