[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Aysedasi]

Yes, I enjoyed it too. I'll be sad to see the passing of LMP1 and the 'rocketships' out of Arnage....

[Deleted]

Great memories, great article, thank you to LMP1 and DSC

Funerals are always sad but it is what it is, must keeping looking at other things, sports to move away from this. Great Turkish GP quali just ended, the drying up waiting nannying was tidious as it always is but interesting session otherwise

[Napolis]

https://twitter.com/glickenhaus/stat...687766018?s=21

[chernaudi]

Personally, I was feeling a bit nostalgic about the LMP900/first gen LMP1 era I kinda grew up in as a teen/young adult, and how I found stuff like the Audi R8, Panoz roadsters, Audi R10, Porsche RS Spyder, Acura ARX-01 series, Peugeot 908 and such so fascinating back then.


That's lead me to think of two things: one, even in LMP1 Hypercar gets slowed to 2006-2007 (let alone 2008 pace--remember when we thought that was fast around Le Mans?), will we really give that much of a crap if the cars look good around the track and (hopefully) produce good racing and look interesting? Even looking at the Audi R10 when I was moving files around on my laptop, it still looks remarkably modern, even without a roof (and the dorsal fin, and fender/wheel arch holes), and you can see its (and even the R8's and Bentley Speed 8's) influence today. And how these cars were judged for being either ugly or Teutonic back then, but now are often held to look elegant by today's standards.


And, two, maybe slower cars isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maybe slowing them down a few ticks of the clock might make them less edgy and either with fewer accidents, or when they do happen, accidents will be less severe. IMO, it's been FCYs, slow zones and pace car FCYs at LM that put a dent in trying for the distance record, not lap times.

[Gingers4Justice]

There was a lot of huffing and puffing before the '14 regs came out, with all sorts of horror stories of cars lifting and coasting and racing at 80% speed.

I'm not saying these regs will be anywhere near as successful, but I tell you what, if I'm trackside at Le Mans in 2023 for the centenary and theres 3-4 manufacturers lining up on Saturday afternoon and the winner could come from any team, then I'll be too excited (and too many beers down) to care how that's been achieved.

[chernaudi]

They may not have had those fears come true, but the increased costs (largely IMO though incentivizing tech and near F1 levels of development and R&D) were negative side effects compared to a lot of what came before. It was like watching an accelerated demise of IMSA GTP or Group C for much the same reason (lack of cost containment and too much incentive on the latest and greatest tech).


I mean, Audi got 3 good years of use out of the R10, Peugeot got 4 out of the 908 as a factory car, and Audi ran the R8 for what today is an eternity. And the cars were recognizably similar in most ways to their initial iterations. Even Toyota in LMP1's twilight year heavily upgraded the TS050, even with little true incentive to do so.

[GregoryDG]

Audi is returning to Le Mans, entering an LMDh car. Further details soon...

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by GregoryDG

Audi is returning to Le Mans, entering an LMDh car. Further details soon...

...and quitting Formula E to do so! Awesome news!

https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/15...e-mans-in-lmdh

[Simmi]

Interesting that the Audi PR leads on the Dakar project and effectively buries the lead in terms of their return to sportscars.

Where it's positioned makes me think that there's going to be a real customer focus to this programme. Which works for me!

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en/...ar-rally-13440

[GT6]

Well the return of Audi will be a big thing let us hope it amounts to something/

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

...and quitting Formula E to do so! Awesome news!

https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/15...e-mans-in-lmdh

Glad to see someone finally come to their senses and realize that Formula E is a joke.

I hope the Audi LMDH styling will be based off the R8 LMS. Maybe the same engine type could be used. I love the sound of the Audi/Lambo GT3 engine. One of my favorites of the current cars running in pro racing.

[PascaLM]

I hope that this announcement will not undermine the will of those who still study the question (Porsche ? Ferrari ?...)

[broadrun96]

Graham seems to feel Audi, Porsche and Honda(Acura in IMSA I'd guess still) are fairly assured in LMDh, and all 3 sell their stuff with a few exceptions of course. Could see a more customer driven LMDh model, has to be a good thing.

https://racer.com/2020/11/30/audi-co...akar-and-lmdh/

[Akrapovic]

Right we're getting there. Now can we kill Hypercar and allow custom chassis that aren't LMP2 based, make them approx LMP1 speeds (so we don't need to slow LMP2) and call it a day?

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

I hope that this announcement will not undermine the will of those who still study the question (Porsche ? Ferrari ?...)

Why would it? Unless there's an agreement with Porsche that the latter focuses on FormulaE and other E-sports

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Now can we kill Hypercar and allow custom chassis that aren't LMP2 based

That's literally "kill hypercar and allow hypercar".

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Why would it? Unless there's an agreement with Porsche that the latter focuses on FormulaE and other E-sports

That's literally "kill hypercar and allow hypercar".

Well, no. Hypercar determination to pretend it's related to a road car. It doesn't take a fine eye for detail to look at LMP styles and Hypercar styles and say "Well these aren't the the same thing". Similar differences with hybrid systems as well.

[chernaudi]

I'm betting that Audi and Porsche are supporting LMDH, provided that they have more leeway in building their own cars (ie, not LMP2 spec chassis). I personally think that would be the best middle ground.

Granted, it does sound like Audi Sport are pushing for a customer friendly program, and Porsche would likely want to go that direction as well.

I'd like to see a closed cockpit version of this, but I do find it unlikely for several reasons:

[FIRE]

Great news!

[P38 in workshop]

Now if somebody could just persuade the merged PSA/FCA group that they ought to join in........

[blankfile]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Now if somebody could just persuade the merged PSA/FCA group that they ought to join in........

Peugeot is entering...

[GregoryDG]

With Peugeot, Toyota and Audi confirmed, Honda and Porsche very likely, and without forgetting Alpine, Glickenhaus and ByKolles, is it too early to call this a golden era?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by GregoryDG

With Peugeot, Toyota and Audi confirmed, Honda and Porsche very likely, and without forgetting Alpine, Glickenhaus and ByKolles, is it too early to call this a golden era?

Yes.





A lot can happen from now till then. The target is 2023 for the Audi program, and other lmdh programs, that is still two full seasons of racing we have to get through!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I'm betting that Audi and Porsche are supporting LMDH, provided that they have more leeway in building their own cars (ie, not LMP2 spec chassis). I personally think that would be the best middle ground.

The entire purpose is cost containment and development restriction, allowing other chassis and development is not going to assist that

[chernaudi]

Well, LMH and LMDH are supposed to be BOP classes, and isn't BOP supposed to contain costs (one of the reasons I've heard for its defense anyways).


I can't see, even with a customer oriented program, Audi and Porsche just shoehorning an engine and plastering decals on an existing, spec-ish chassis.



As far as I'm concerned, Audi Sport spent $15 million on the ALMS from 2006-2008. That's about a tenth of what they spent for a WEC season from 2014-2016. If factory budgets don't exceed $50 million, that's still serious coin, but a lot more sustainable and sensible than $150 million+. And there's a part of me that doubts that $50 million will even be the high end of what most factory teams will spend, especially if the class is supposed to be heavily BOP'd like GT racing has become.


Of course, you can argue then what's the incentive of a factory team developing their own car other than having something they can call their own, even if like in the Audi LMP900/LMP1 days it was built by someone else under license to their design.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

I hope that this announcement will not undermine the will of those who still study the question (Porsche ? Ferrari ?...)

This article shows that I was wrong, fortunately.