2021 Rallying

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

In amongst all of the other chatter about the Puma I noticed comments that M-Sport have had access to Ford design facilities and their moving floor wind tunnel, so that does suggest that Ford are at least a bit more interested/invested than they were with the current car.

... But I’ve got to say that with this particular project with the hybrid side and the technology we’ve had incredible support from Ford in the US and we’ve been given the incredible resources available to us to hopefully put us in a really strong position. I think it’s fair to say that without that support we wouldn’t have been as confident as we are at the moment.

Can you explain more about Ford’s involvement?

It starts from everywhere. The modelling, the simulations, being able to have access to the moving floor windtunnel. We’ve also had the opportunity as well to use the sim so it’s been a big advantage for the drivers to be able to relate back from the sim to the car and with driving both you can speed up the process of development.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/qa-ma...d-puma-rally1/

[Alex Langheck]

Doesn't matter how good the car is if they can't get any top line drivers. That is the crux of the matter. If Ford are providing additional support, hopefully that means a budget for decent drivers.


As for the WRC Promoter taking over the ERC, if it means coverage behind a paywall, then it's not going to work. It really is that simple.
WRC All Live is a good product, but it's behind a paywall, as is 95% of the WRC coverage - that's surely one reason for the lack of more manufacturers/sponsors.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Doesn't matter how good the car is if they can't get any top line drivers. That is the crux of the matter. If Ford are providing additional support, hopefully that means a budget for decent drivers.

Agreed - they need better drivers, I think Formaux is showing promise but he's certainly not a 'number 1' yet. The question though is who could they get? Realistically you're not going to get Ogier (likely only doing a part season), Tanak, Neuville (both have Hyundai contracts), Evans (has Toyota contract) - so that's all of the 'top' drivers (those with speed and experience) accounted for. Sordo? Is he a lead driver? Rovanpera and Katsuta you'd assume will stick with Toyota, Solberg presumably will stay with Hyundai. So then you're looking at Mikklesen, Ostberg, Lappi - again are they lead drivers? They're better than M-Sport currently have but could they challenge the Toyotas and Hyundais?

[SnoodyMcFlude]

They'd spend a lot less money on parts if they had someone other than Greensmith too

Mikklesen and Ostberg are definitely more lead drivers than Gus or Formaux. Don't think either would be challenging for a championship but would probably bring a lot of useful knowledge and experience to the role.....but cash is king.

[HoleInTheHedge]

Surly Breen has to be an option?
For a man that’s only doing the odd event in a WRC he’s putting in serious times again this weekend

[BertMk2]

I managd to catch quite a bit of coverage from Belgium over the weekend - the first couple of days were typical Ypres (run slightly wide, find a ditch, game over) and the stages looked good. Breen was absolutely flying all weekend and you'd have to think would have won if Hyundai had let him.

I'm in two minds about the stages at Spa - on the one hand it's easy for the casual fan to watch and people might have gone there that otherwise wouldn't have watched but on the other Spa was a fair distance from the rest of the stages and I don't think it really added anything.

[Alex Langheck]

Ypres doesn't need to go to Spa to be a great rally. I'm not sure they added anything, that other roads round Ypres couldn't do. And considering the distance to get to Spa, they only did 40kms of competitive driving. Should have finished on Saturday night in Ypres.
But the elephant in the room - all events have to conform to the generic 'WRC event'; with a Sunday lunchtime finish.(Something I still feel doesn't suit all events).

I also heard Spa was chosen as the Liege province put money up towards the hosting fee.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

But the elephant in the room - all events have to conform to the generic 'WRC event'; with a Sunday lunchtime finish.(Something I still feel doesn't suit all events).

I think this is a good point - the events are being 'squashed' so they finish early and they are losing some of their distinctive character as a result. This started with the reduction in stage lengths - I know the days of huge stages are gone (spectator management makes it unfeasible) but some of the stages in Belgium were very short (we've done longer stages on single venue events). Stages that take less than 5 minutes have no business on a WRC event if they're anything other than a 'super special' type stage.

The lack of top class cars is also an issue - lose a couple of the works drivers and suddenly the field looks very thin.

[NaBUru38]

Standings after Ypres:


1. FRA Sébastien Ogier (Toyota), 162
2. GBR Elfyn Evans (Toyota), 124
3. BEL Thierry Neuville (Hyundai), 124
4. FIN Kalle Rovanperä (Toyota), 99
5. EST Ott Tänak (Hyundai), 87
6. JPN Takamoto Katsuta (Toyota), 66
7. IRL Craig Breen (Hyundai), 60
8. GBR Gus Greensmith (Ford), 34
9. ESP Dani Sordo (Hyundai), 31
10. FRA Adrien Fourmaux (Ford), 30



Next round is the Acropolis Rally on September 9-12.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The lack of top class cars is also an issue - lose a couple of the works drivers and suddenly the field looks very thin.

Very true, you could basically just take it easy and manage a good position in one round. Almost every rally a R5 car or two finishes in the top 10. Katsuta did just that in Kenya for example and everyone was quick to praise him for staying on the road when others didn't or ran into issues.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The lack of top class cars is also an issue - lose a couple of the works drivers and suddenly the field looks very thin.

And this isn't looking likely to change - even with a new set of regs next year. A shame the WRC media aren't asking difficult questions about the lack of new manufacturers.

[S griffin]

Enjoyed watching the highlights last night. Great win by Neuville and good drive by Breen too, nice to see him getting the chance

How unlucky is Evans though? He beats Ogier, yet doesn't close the gap due to Ogier beating him in the power stage

Did enjoy the final power stage in Spa, fitting place to end it. Looked great seeing them at one of the greatest race tracks in the world

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Did enjoy the final power stage in Spa, fitting place to end it. Looked great seeing them at one of the greatest race tracks in the world

Interesting - the parts of the stage on the circuit itself didn't really work for me, an F1 track is just too big - the cars just look a bit 'lost' in such a wide open space, you lose the sensation of speed to some extent. The parts of the stage that used the access roads were much better than the bits on the circuit itself. I noticed that they used sections of the rallycross circuit too - the 'dirt' sections didn't look very 'dirty' though.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

I quite enjoyed seeing them flat through corners like Pouhon and bimbling around the narrow walking paths but not sure I enjoyed it any more than seeing them flat out on the roads around Ypres. Felt like a lot of hassle which didn't really add much.

[Alex Langheck]

A WRCar isn't suited to wide open circuits - they didn't look particularly quick. In his post stage interview, Tanak said he wished for another 500BHP, as the car wasn't powerful enough on it; plus they're geared for lower down speed, not high speed.

[hoffman66]

Even these cars are perhaps only geared ay Ypres for 120mph, maybe a bit more so a track like that is pointless, in the past they had stages in very busy industrial estates and let cars out a few seconds apart, so it became a bit of a race was superb watching Manta's 6R4's 037's all blatting about together, and they sued to do more in the smaller towns around Ypres, but can imagine that is a no-no

Plus Spa probably wanted to get in on the action financially so possibly paid for this, totally pointless in my eyes, stages are far more interesting as we all know from the woeful MSV stuff as a spectator.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by hoffman66

Plus Spa probably wanted to get in on the action financially so possibly paid for this, totally pointless in my eyes, stages are far more interesting as we all know from the woeful MSV stuff as a spectator.

Yes, I believe the Liege region put money towards the hosting fee, so naturally, Spa got half a day of action.

But, it took away from what Ypres is all about; narrow tarmac stages all around the city, stages running into the night, finishing the event in the market square in front of all the fans.

When you don't have all that, it's not really Ypres, is it? Yet another event changed to fit into this ridiculous 'WRC format'.
Will they ever realise it's ruined many events? Probably not....

[hoffman66]

The good thing is that Ypres will survive long after this, they only went there because of the lack of events.

Although for me Ypres should have been a WRC round for decades, at least even Condroz, rallying in Belgium is so strong, there should also be more than one French round, the amount of events there and the roads are fabulous, plus they supoply champions for decades so the support is amazing

[FIRE]

But if Ypres and Condroz would be WRC events for decades in 2021 they would no longer be the events we like.

[S griffin]

No surprise to see the Rally of Japan cancelled

[BertMk2]

The Acropolis rally is underway - good to get back onto gravel after some tarmac events. The Acropolis is traditionally pretty rough and hard on the cars so we'll see how they get on - Neuville already in trouble looking at the times.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Yeah lots of problems, Elfyn is stuck in third gear and Neuville has had power steering problems. I'd forgotten just how rough some of the Greek stages are, great to see them back in the championship.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

I'd forgotten just how rough some of the Greek stages are, great to see them back in the championship.

Yep, proper rough gravel stages

Rovanpera takes the win but the title is looking increasingly like it's got Ogier's name on it. I think it's going to take some DNFs now for anyone to catch him.

[Alex Langheck]

Another event that didn't really get going; Evans & Neuville struggling from Friday morning/ afternoon with issues; and out of the running. Leaving Rovanpera in charge, with Ogier not taking too many risks in chasing another championship. Tanak blowing hot & cold.....

The other were miles behind.....Much as I'm a fan of the sport, it's a hard sell at the moment; it's just not that interesting.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Another event that didn't really get going; ....Much as I'm a fan of the sport, it's a hard sell at the moment; it's just not that interesting.

Agreed, all that excitement when the new generation of cars appeared has fizzled out somewhat. The series could really do with a few more serious manufacturers. I would hope the promoters are working on this behind the scenes.