Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 Dec 2021, 15:57 (Ref:4090708)   #51
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
If you want manufacturers officially involved the engine is important.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 20 Dec 2021, 21:16 (Ref:4090759)   #52
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If Mazda were so keen on TCR, they'd have come up with their own solution for their engine, or lack thereof, dilemma.

Obviously, to some manufacturers, motorsport is not that big of a deal.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 04:44 (Ref:4090932)   #53
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
If the engine is so relevant, how do you account for the fact that most BTCC cars have an engine that is not found in the road car, and is usually a different size to what is seen on the road?
???

The majority of the racing vehicles are available with a 2.0L engine, and the TOCA engine is used by most competitors as it is cost effective. Obviously the teams that can afford it, e.g., WSR BMW or Team Dynamics Honda do use the original 2.0L B48 or 2.0L K20C1 that came in the original car.

To rule out the Focus ST just because it happens to now have a 2.3L, or the Alfa Giulietta Veloce just because the road car happens to be a 1.75L or Renault Megane RS because it's 1.8L, seems pedantic in the extreme!

Now, by no means would it be terrible for DTM and Supercars to sit down and drew up a set of regulations where there are a mixture sports coupes (Mustang, Camaro, BMW, Mercedes etc) with engine capacities from 2.9L twin-turbos up to 6.3L naturally aspirated that are all properly balanced for performance, but neither category seems willing or interested in doing this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
When the majority of the public watch BTCC - they know that the 1.2L engine on the road model (the only size petrol engine available)
You know full well that this was available (with 2.0L GM turbo engine) until recently though:


Obviously now the Astra is made by Peugeot and the largest petrol turbo Peugeot engine is the 1.6L.

With the WLTP regulations becoming increasingly strict (0% chance of a 2.0L turbo coming anywhere near the CO2/km fleet target), Peugeot may prefer to push Peugeot Sport's GTi label over the OPC or VXR brands, while selling the Astra with only the lower-emitting 1.2L and foregoing a hot Astra model for the time-being.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
If Mazda were so keen on TCR, they'd have come up with their own solution for their engine
To all intents and purposes the 2.3L Mazda 3 MPS engine is the same as the 2.0L Ford Focus ST engine or 2.3L Ford Focus ST engine (you can bolt the Mazda multi-port cylinder head straight on, in place of the Ford integrated exhaust manifold cylinder head), and it is aluminium block which is 10-15kg lighter than the cast-ironVW EA888.

So you'd obviously prefer to use a 2.0L development of the Mazda/Ford engine instead of the VW engine, funds permitting. More weight over the front axle is not good!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 22 Dec 2021 at 05:02.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 04:55 (Ref:4090933)   #54
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Obviously, to some manufacturers, motorsport is not that big of a deal.
Of course motorsport is a big deal to Mazda:



However, it is made very clear to Mazda by the European Union that they are not particularly welcome to sell Japanese-made cars in Europe thanks to that 9.8% import tariff. For better or worse, TCR is a primarily European racing category, and full importers like Mazda or Subaru are heavily disadvantaged by tariffs.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 14:58 (Ref:4090993)   #55
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Of course motorsport is a big deal to Mazda:



However, it is made very clear to Mazda by the European Union that they are not particularly welcome to sell Japanese-made cars in Europe thanks to that 9.8% import tariff. For better or worse, TCR is a primarily European racing category, and full importers like Mazda or Subaru are heavily disadvantaged by tariffs.
The IMSA project came to an end.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 15:04 (Ref:4090994)   #56
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE View Post
The IMSA project came to an end.
Sure! Yet the import tariff doesn't end until 2031, such a protectionist tariff is absurd wouldn't you say?
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 16:05 (Ref:4090999)   #57
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Sure! Yet the import tariff doesn't end until 2031, such a protectionist tariff is absurd wouldn't you say?
I don't know, what is tariff for car exports to Japan?
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Dec 2021, 21:55 (Ref:4091026)   #58
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Your question is so nuanced it doesn't matter what the answer is. You don't even seem to consider other factors involved.
What factors did you consider to reach the conclusion that motor racing is a smaller culture in Australia?
chavez is offline  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 24 Dec 2021, 08:24 (Ref:4091163)   #59
2 litre Touring Car Star
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Australia
Posts: 506
2 litre Touring Car Star User had had their licence endorsed2 litre Touring Car Star User had had their licence endorsed
Conclusion, as if it's something I dreamt up?

European motor racing, historically driven through the UK, is the biggest, most influential motor racing culture in the world.

American is a tad smaller, less influential and is also divided.

Australian motor racing as an industry and community is only a fraction of what America is, European, UK especially, and some other European countries when you separate them.

Then when you start looking at domestic sports, supercars are in the second tier of sports competitions behind the AFL/NRL/cricket. If it was;t for Bathurst, whichever class holds atcc status would be just a little bit bigger than TCR Aus is now.

Just because a few foreigners post on here and chat about it, doesn't mean we're big time. At the very best, medium fry in every context.
2 litre Touring Car Star is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Dec 2021, 11:17 (Ref:4091288)   #60
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So Mr Wilmington and son have ditched the S5000 in favour of an Alfa Romeo TCR.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2021, 10:02 (Ref:4091642)   #61
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
If Mazda were so keen on TCR, they'd have come up with their own solution for their engine, or lack thereof, dilemma.
As if that is the truth of the matter, we all know you can just run the "class" engine and not tell everybody it comes from a Golf?

A couple of non-Golfs with Golf engines ran in the inaugural season here, no?

I guess it does raise questions of BoP
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2021, 11:39 (Ref:4091653)   #62
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
No.

No non-Golfs have run Golf engines thus far. The Mazda project would have been the first to do it.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Dec 2021, 11:50 (Ref:4091655)   #63
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
In 2019, Audi, Cupra and VW cars used the 2.0 R4 16v TSI/TFSI (EA888) engine.
In 2021, Audi and VW cars used the 2.0 R4 16v TSI/TFSI (EA888) engine.

The planned Mazda TCR car is scheduled to use the Mazda SkyActiv engine.
crmalcolm is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Dec 2021, 03:58 (Ref:4091735)   #64
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
As if that is the truth of the matter, we all know you can just run the "class" engine and not tell everybody it comes from a Golf?
I don't see why you'd run a heavy boat anchor of a cast-iron block engine unless you have to!
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2021, 09:06 (Ref:4091888)   #65
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
I don't see why you'd run a heavy boat anchor of a cast-iron block engine unless you have to!
In a BoP series where is the penalty? The weights and power are all artificial in any case.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Dec 2021, 10:52 (Ref:4091905)   #66
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So it’s not really that long to round 1, any hint of new competitors. Braydon Willmington is one…

Is Chaz coming back?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jan 2022, 12:08 (Ref:4092071)   #67
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
In a BoP series where is the penalty? The weights and power are all artificial in any case.
Yes, JAS Motorsport must wonder why they bother to make their Civics handle so well, as it gets BOP'ed to oblivion on the straight bits.

But oh well, it is all part of the competition.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Jan 2022, 12:04 (Ref:4092186)   #68
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Yes, JAS Motorsport must wonder why they bother to make their Civics handle so well, as it gets BOP'ed to oblivion on the straight bits.
in WTCR they have a bad habit of showing crazy speed but not getting any results for it, and then getting thumped.

Then again they debut all their new bits at Bathurst (an ideal place to show it off) but their lead driver decided to focus on going nowhere in Supercars instead.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Jan 2022, 12:09 (Ref:4092187)   #69
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Those parts have been used by teams overseas for a few months now.

Not as new as hype will lead you to believe.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Jan 2022, 12:16 (Ref:4092190)   #70
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Not as new as hype will lead you to believe.
Not like TCRA raced in those months, and Tony D has been *****ing louder than anybody about the lack of straight line handling

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jan 2022, 12:05 (Ref:4094860)   #71
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
So I checked out some of the early Pure eTCR races, and I have to say wow. I didn't really know before I watched but the cars run up to 500kw rear drive.

The racing itself is fairly complicated and contrived, a bit inspired by drifting perhaps.

There only seems to be 6 actual cars from 3 manufacturers so they share them between multiple drivers during different heats of the round.

When the cars run the Time Trial laps with the full 500kw they are absolutely mental, no aero to speak of and running on road tyres. Mattias Ekstrom btw is a frickin genius.

If you like TCR racing then I reckon eTCR might light your fire. They make the regular cars look pretty slow!
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jan 2022, 22:42 (Ref:4094923)   #72
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Three weeks out from round 1, might have expected a few more confirmations of entry by now?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Jan 2022, 03:04 (Ref:4094950)   #73
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
List I've got to hand;

Lachlan Minieff
Nathan Morcom
Josh Buchan
Bailey Sweeny
Brayden Wilmington
Luke King
Jay Hansen
Liam McAdam
Zac Soutar
Michael Clemente
Ben Bargwanna
Jason Bargwanna

No news from ASM, GRM or Wall Racing yet. I'd expect at least for GRM and Wall, things will remain the same.

No talk of new cars coming in, besides Mr Hansen's new rig.

GRM has an unused Alfa, and unused Peugeot, and a spare Renault - presumably re-shelled by now.

I'd expect average car counts to be in the high teens for the year.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Jan 2022, 13:09 (Ref:4095278)   #74
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Announcement from Honda today regarding Tony D was good news, presumably John Martin to follow soon

Hopefully the third car makes an appearance
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2022, 09:24 (Ref:4095366)   #75
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I believe they've only got the two chassis now.

In other news, GRM are to offload their remaining Alfa, and running 4 Peugeots and 2 Renaults.

I suspect that this is due to Romeo Ferraris no longer investing in the now-obsolete Guilietta.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TCR UK 2022 antnee Touring Car Racing 218 24 Oct 2022 06:37
TCR Australia 2021 Umai Naa Australasian Touring Cars. 265 17 Dec 2021 04:01
2019 TCR Australia Silly Season Umai Naa Australasian Touring Cars. 978 23 Nov 2019 00:18
A TCR series for Australia? Speed-King Australasian Touring Cars. 96 5 Jun 2017 18:28


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.