[DTM] 2015 DTM news & rumours

[DS"]

No edit function? Well, sorry for double post then.

Aaaaaaaaaaand Hand's gone: http://www.motorsport-total.com/dtm/...-14120502.html

But I read it that Hand's entirely gone from BMW. Is that true? I mean, BMW are still competing in the TUSCC, right?

[GusGasfuss]

I am getting tired of all this young drivers in DTM.

No one of them has a real persoality...

[rich07]

Originally Posted by DS"

With Andy Priaulx switching over to the ELMS with Marc VDS, there is now a seat to fill in the TUSCC.

Lucas Luhr has taken his seat

John Edwards/Bill Auberlen
Dirk Werner/Lucas Luhr

Farfus and Spengler for Daytona

[DS"]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I am getting tired of all this young drivers in DTM.

No one of them has a real persoality...

Well, even though I'd like to see more German youngsters in DTM, I agree with most of what you said. I keep saying for years that the manufacturers should present drivers Joe Everyman and not just Nerdy Ned care about. Though the days of the Stucks, Ludwigs or Schneiders are over, the DTM hasn't presented any real successors to these. Guys like Ekström, Scheider or Tomczyk are perhaps coming close, but even they aren't as well known among the audience as the DTM drivers of the 1990's were.

Still, with the recent adoption of the two-race-per-weekend format, DTM is on a good way for the first time in years. Now they just need a decent TV partner (Maybe if the rumours about the Das Erste being interested in Formula One are true...although I'd rather see F1 continue with RTL, but that's OT). Eurosport would be a dream, but they'd never cover a series that competes with their own touring car series. I either want a TV channel that does DTM properly or at least promotes the series properly and Das Erste does neither!

[porsche962fan]

I blame this on the marketing division, they transform all this drivers into soul less robots essentially that only say and do what the marketing masters dictate them

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I blame this on the marketing division, they transform all this drivers into soul less robots essentially that only say and do what the marketing masters dictate them

Of course its not the fault of the young drivers. You can't develop a profile in such young age, or you will not be let by your boss (they don't want personality, because it should be the car, that gets personality through racing.

BTW, i was really happy about DTM coverage in the 90s on 3SAT (which was a special interest channel of ARD/DASERSTE). Especially there was good moderation of Rainer Braun, who is still one of the best for this job. I would be really happy to see/hear him again. Maybe in cooperation with someone like Stuck etc.
Best of all in ARD is, that there are no advertising between the race.
And we have to face, that it is still some kind of "insider" sport. Not like soccer etc.

If you see movies like "Adrenalin" you will see, how much personality of drivers there was in 70s-90s...

[DS"]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I blame this on the marketing division, they transform all this drivers into soul less robots essentially that only say and do what the marketing masters dictate them

I agree with that notion, even though it seems like the drivers are slowly but steadily getting their heads out of the sand. I think the DTM Drivers' Association is a step in the right direction, as it enables drivers to speak out on certain matters.

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

BTW, i was really happy about DTM coverage in the 90s on 3SAT (which was a special interest channel of ARD/DASERSTE). Especially there was good moderation of Rainer Braun, who is still one of the best for this job. I would be really happy to see/hear him again. Maybe in cooperation with someone like Stuck etc.

Well, Rainer Braun is like 70 or so now and pretty much retired. I'd prefer the likes of Jacques Schulz (He should be free now, as Kabel Eins aren't covering the GT Masters in 2015) or Norbert Ockenga (Should Eurosport allow it) commentating the DTM.

Best of all in ARD is, that there are no advertising between the race.
And we have to face, that it is still some kind of "insider" sport. Not like soccer etc.

But auto racing used to be bigger, especially in the 1990's. The common man at least knew who the DTM's biggest stars were back then. Despite the fact that Michael Schumacher was just starting to take off. Of course, the fact that Formula One is more or less Germany's #2 sport is because RTL continuously put plenty of effort into promoting Formula One in Germany. Granted, there was no DTM between 97 and 99. But DTM could still be marketed way better by the media.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

Of course its not the fault of the young drivers. You can't develop a profile in such young age, or you will not be let by your boss (they don't want personality, because it should be the car, that gets personality through racing.

BTW, i was really happy about DTM coverage in the 90s on 3SAT (which was a special interest channel of ARD/DASERSTE). Especially there was good moderation of Rainer Braun, who is still one of the best for this job. I would be really happy to see/hear him again. Maybe in cooperation with someone like Stuck etc.
Best of all in ARD is, that there are no advertising between the race.
And we have to face, that it is still some kind of "insider" sport. Not like soccer etc.

If you see movies like "Adrenalin" you will see, how much personality of drivers there was in 70s-90s...

Braun really wasn't that good anymore when he did GT-Masters some years ago... kind of erratic at times, even.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by DS"

But auto racing used to be bigger, especially in the 1990's. The common man at least knew who the DTM's biggest stars were back then. Despite the fact that Michael Schumacher was just starting to take off. Of course, the fact that Formula One is more or less Germany's #2 sport is because RTL continuously put plenty of effort into promoting Formula One in Germany. Granted, there was no DTM between 97 and 99. But DTM could still be marketed way better by the media.

there was STW Cup then too which became bigger from 1997 as the DTM disbanded and many drivers switched there, but RTL took ever the coverage from ZDF and they f***ed up for good

I remember they intreerupted race coverage just to show some stupid interview with some VIP from F1 track and often they showed just a few minutes of highlits instead of actual race

also the current DTM the cars suck , lifeless siloettes, it's noithing really exiting about them , cars with LESS grip and being heavier should be required to have more exiting racing

[DS"]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

there was STW Cup then too which became bigger from 1997 as the DTM disbanded and many drivers switched there, but RTL took ever the coverage from ZDF and they f***ed up for good

It was DSF whom they took over the coverage from but other than that...well, RTL had some potential with the STW Cup, but they screwed it up by mandating that the STW runs on the same day as F1. Now I'm normally not opposed to series running on the same day as F1, but what RTL did was to neglect live coverage of the STW in favour of pre-race coverage of F1. Still, I'd rather see DTM on RTL than on Das Erste.

[porsche962fan]

yeah DSF , my mistake, at least DSF did show the full races !!!!! still remember those epic battles between the factory AUDI and BMW teams with some Ford Mondeo, Hondas , Nissan and early Opel Vectra thrown in

this is how proper touring cars should be, very exiting times also with real character drivers like "Smoking Joe" Joachnin Winkelhawg , Frank Biela, Hans Stuck, Klaus Nietzwitz , Roberto Ravaglia and later Piero, Aiello etc

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by DS"

It was DSF whom they took over the coverage from but other than that...well, RTL had some potential with the STW Cup, but they screwed it up by mandating that the STW runs on the same day as F1.

It actually worked though... I was twelve or thirteen years old back then and new a lot about F1 and nothing much about the tourers in the beginning, but soon I'd only watch the tourers and skip more and more F1 races.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

It would mean a 42 races calendar for 2015.

Some Argentine drivers do TC, TC2000 and TRV6 / TN, not to mention Kyle Busch.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

I am getting tired of all this young drivers in DTM.

DTM should either build a feeder A-Klasse / S3 / 1er touring car championship, or hire drivers from Porsche Supercup and German Cup.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

DTM should either build a feeder A-Klasse / S3 / 1er touring car championship, or hire drivers from Porsche Supercup and German Cup.

They tried that and GT3-drivers get tests every now and then. But the F3 guys are by-and-at-large simply better suited to DTM.

The only exception I can think of is Maxime Martin, but he is just such an absolute talent, that he'd be fast in anything. Well, and Rockenfeller, but Rockenfeller had already proved his mettle in prototypes before going to DTM, so he wasn't your typical GT-guy either.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

It actually worked though... I was twelve or thirteen years old back then and new a lot about F1 and nothing much about the tourers in the beginning, but soon I'd only watch the tourers and skip more and more F1 races.

this is what's missing from today's racing

nearly 500 BHP cars on narrow tires and very limited grip based on road going shells


now tel me it's ain't spectacular just see them slide and twitch across corners ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxFjyMUWLF8

also the fact that giving love kisses on the bumper was fair play, today a driver would get drive penalty thru at the very least

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

this is what's missing from today's racing

nearly 500 BHP cars on narrow tires and very limited grip based on road going shells


now tel me it's ain't spectacular just see them slide and twitch across corners ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxFjyMUWLF8

also the fact that giving love kisses on the bumper was fair play, today a driver would get drive penalty thru at the very least

You should watch V8 Supercars.

[Rf1 Fan]

Ocon was as fast as Gary Paffett during the morning he spent on the car last week with Mercedes according to some press.

[JoestForEver]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

Ocon was as fast as Gary Paffett during the morning he spent on the car last week with Mercedes according to some press.

That's astonishing. But Gary hasn't been the fastest Merc driver for a while isn't he?

[Rf1 Fan]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

That's astonishing. But Gary hasn't been the fastest Merc driver for a while isn't he?

Of course, but it was his first outing in a racing car with a roof.

I'm pretty sure that Mercedes considers him for a seat in the french ART GP.

He is rather Mercedes friendly, it would be a way for them to keep him in Mercedes galaxy and give some fresh cash to Gravity.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

Of course, but it was his first outing in a racing car with a roof.

I'm pretty sure that Mercedes considers him for a seat in the french ART GP.

He is rather Mercedes friendly, it would be a way for them to keep him in Mercedes galaxy and give some fresh cash to Gravity.

These cars are too much of a formula car with roof. Thats why such "kid" can be so fast in first outing.
In the past we were happy about each old guy, struggeling to keep the pace, but having a lot of tricks in his hat (if you understand me right).
In history there were people like Soper, Rouse, Cecotto, Ravaglia, Ludwig, Stuck etc. They had the personality to be on top.
Nowaday i see this kind of personality in touring cars only at Muller, Coronel, Ekström. All others are changeable, no special personality. Like a robot at work, doing exact the same lap time every round.
I am so sad, that the glory days of touring cars are over.

[helgi]

Ocon to DTM? Really hope, not. He deserves a better place. Should go to WSR or GP2. Mercedes use their DTM programme as a storehouse for real talents like Green. Unfortunately for Jamie he has gone to Audi too late, when Ingolstadt began copying that stupid programme splitting too. Other way Green could have been entered GT or Le Mans.

[Andrew Abbott]

No driver changes for Audi next year. Makes sense, as they had a prettyh solid and consistent squad this year.

http://www.touringcars.net/2014/12/a...ne-up-for-2015

[Rf1 Fan]

Ocon confirms that he may race in touring cars while excluding WTCC in 2015.

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

Ocon confirms that he may race in touring cars while excluding WTCC in 2015.

So...TCR?

Nah, I think it's clear that he'll go to the DTM. Hooray...

Sure, a DTM stacked with good drivers from open-wheelers has good drivers in it...but the DTM still lacks charisma that draws people to the series. It's like Manchester City* or Paris Saint-Germain. Plenty of good players, but even though the clubs have the money to acquire those good players, they still don't have the charisma of the established, traditional top clubs like Real Madrid or Bayern München. That's what DTM lacks too, something "traditional" that draws people to the sport. Yes, they keep referring to their history every now and then, but they seem to have lost some track about what DTM was all about back then. It was about the Schneiders, Ludwigs or Stucks, battling it out in monsters.

* Even though I like City, but perhaps only because I hate Manchester United.