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Old 12 Mar 2019, 11:50 (Ref:3889865)   #176
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Originally Posted by Motormouth94 View Post
TCR UK does have TV highlights - if memory serves it was shown on Motorsport TV, and Sky Sports. Although the trend these days is actually that more people watch live streaming online than the TV highlights packages anyway, as they can be watched and re-watched at the viewers convenience.
they obviously promoted that very well!
i watched some of the rounds online when i remembered, wasnt aware there was a mainstream TV "highlights" show.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 11:59 (Ref:3889868)   #177
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
they obviously promoted that very well!
i watched some of the rounds online when i remembered, wasnt aware there was a mainstream TV "highlights" show.
That's my point though, more people watch the online content anyway. And the highlights programmes go up on Youtube after a few weeks, so people can just watch it there when it's convenient for them. TV is slowly starting to become obsolete - online streaming is the future, so many UK championships are choosing to promote their online content more actively as a result
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 12:05 (Ref:3889872)   #178
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Tho the argument for only being popular as its on TV doesnt seem to work for Formula E
Maybe but when it is on "proper" tv it makes a big difference to the viewing figures - https://motorsportbroadcasting.com/2...rs-on-bbc-two/

FE has the advantage of being on when there isn't much other motorsport on as well. Perhaps TCR should consider being a winter series on when the BTCC isn't?
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 12:08 (Ref:3889873)   #179
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Tho the argument for only being popular as its on TV doesnt seem to work for Formula E

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TCR UK does have TV highlights - if memory serves it was shown on Motorsport TV, and Sky Sports.
Maybe but when it is on "proper" tv it makes a big difference to the viewing figures.

That's the issue here. Sky, Motorsports TV (when it existed) etc etc aren't "proper" TV (for want of a better description). Whenever motorsport is on a terrestrial channel it dwarfs the viewership compared to online, satellite or cable.

FE has the advantage of being on when there isn't much other motorsport on as well. Perhaps TCR should consider being a winter series on when the BTCC isn't?
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 12:25 (Ref:3889874)   #180
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Originally Posted by Johno.UK View Post
Maybe but when it is on "proper" tv it makes a big difference to the viewing figures.

That's the issue here. Sky, Motorsports TV (when it existed) etc etc aren't "proper" TV (for want of a better description). Whenever motorsport is on a terrestrial channel it dwarfs the viewership compared to online, satellite or cable.

FE has the advantage of being on when there isn't much other motorsport on as well. Perhaps TCR should consider being a winter series on when the BTCC isn't?
I think people need to stop comparing TCR UK to BTCC - they are not the same thing, nor have TCR ever aimed to knock BTCC off it's perch. The BTCC has a "proper" TV deal because it has a 60 year heritage, has been at the forefront of British motorsport for decades, and has the budget to pay for the ITV deal that has served them so well.

TCR UK does not have these things, so should never have been expected to come in and challenge the BTCC in any way. I'm sure TCR are very happy with their viewing figures, especially considering it was the first season for a new championship
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 13:58 (Ref:3889890)   #181
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I think people need to stop comparing TCR UK to BTCC - they are not the same thing, nor have TCR ever aimed to knock BTCC off it's perch.
They're not the same thing - but budgets aren't wildly dissimilar (for lower order BTCC rides at least) so they'll be compared. Currently TCR in the UK has no advantages over Clios or MINIs (or arguably Ginettas on the TOCA package). If you're looking for a UK series to race in why would you choose TCR at the moment?

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Originally Posted by Motormouth94 View Post
The BTCC has a "proper" TV deal because it has a 60 year heritage, has been at the forefront of British motorsport for decades, and has the budget to pay for the ITV deal that has served them so well. I'm sure TCR are very happy with their viewing figures, especially considering it was the first season for a new championship
I'm not so sure they'll be "very happy" with the viewing figures - do we know what they were for last year? At the moment it doesn't look good for there being a second season does it? Is it 2 confirmed entries? I think the whole TCR thing has just been pitched badly for the UK market - should probably have hooked up with something else until they had enough cars for their own grid.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 14:08 (Ref:3889891)   #182
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Originally Posted by Motormouth94 View Post
That's my point though, more people watch the online content anyway. And the highlights programmes go up on Youtube after a few weeks, so people can just watch it there when it's convenient for them. TV is slowly starting to become obsolete - online streaming is the future, so many UK championships are choosing to promote their online content more actively as a result

The point is that they obviously didnt promote their coverage very well, I remember at least 1 occasion the races were on a Saturday not the Sunday and I didnt know, I didnt see anything about this highlights show on Motors TV/Sky Sports you mention.
if they have this online content they should promote it a bit better
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 14:08 (Ref:3889892)   #183
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They're not the same thing - but budgets aren't wildly dissimilar (for lower order BTCC rides at least) so they'll be compared. Currently TCR in the UK has no advantages over Clios or MINIs (or arguably Ginettas on the TOCA package). If you're looking for a UK series to race in why would you choose TCR at the moment?
You're missing my point. No, the cars aren't cheap exactly, but once they've been purchased they can be raced in any TCR sanctioned series around the world. NGTC cars for example can only be raced in 1, and they are still more expensive to buy/run than a TCR car. That's why I would choose TCR if I were a team owner. As for drivers, there is a natural career progression through the TCR ranks, right up to world championship level.

You can try as hard as you like, but you can't really fault the theory behind the formula on the whole, it just needs more support in this country to get it off the ground
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 14:14 (Ref:3889893)   #184
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another kicking for tcr uk;
pyro have announced they are doing the German championship and not uk

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019/03/12/pyro-motorsport-confirm-tcr-germany-entry/

Last edited by touring fan01; 12 Mar 2019 at 14:19.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 14:31 (Ref:3889900)   #185
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Well that is a shame. Will there be any teams left for this good idea?
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 14:33 (Ref:3889901)   #186
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I think that (Pyro not running in UK) was widely known. I had assumed they were looking at the European series.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 16:52 (Ref:3889929)   #187
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Originally Posted by Motormouth94 View Post
You're missing my point. No, the cars aren't cheap exactly, but once they've been purchased they can be raced in any TCR sanctioned series around the world.
They make sense for teams but not for drivers - the cost to run in TCR UK is too much for what you get back. If a team can find a driver to race the car in the UK and then someone else to race the same car in Europe then ok (not sure that's practical given livery changes). But if a driver has budget to do TCR UK and TCR Europe for example - why would they not just do BTCC and get more coverage / return on investment for sponsors? Motorbase bought TCR Golfs with a view do doing exactly what you're suggesting - but couldn't get any interest - so the theory is sound but the reality is somewhat different.


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Originally Posted by Motormouth94 View Post
You can try as hard as you like, but you can't really fault the theory behind the formula on the whole, it just needs more support in this country to get it off the ground
The theory behind the formula is sound - and in countries where there was no dominant touring car formula in place (or a failing one in STCC) it's a great idea. The same widespread ruleset was in place in the golden Super Touring years and to a lesser extent S2000. The problem is there doesn't seem to be a gap in the UK market for it as a stand alone championship at the moment. If they could grow the grid running as a class in another championship then it might take off.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 18:02 (Ref:3889942)   #188
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There seems to be a lot of agreement that TCR UK costs too much relative to what you get back, but something that has been bugging me here. How does running a TCR-spec car in TCT seems to be a good idea, when running the same car in TCR isn't?

I'm guessing entries fees include an element to cover the costs of the TCR franchise / licencing / branding, but there must be more to it than that. TCT has less rounds but the per race cost can't be that much different.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 18:25 (Ref:3889951)   #189
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There seems to be a lot of agreement that TCR UK costs too much relative to what you get back, but something that has been bugging me here. How does running a TCR-spec car in TCT seems to be a good idea, when running the same car in TCR isn't?
that’s why TCT have so few tcr cars also
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 20:45 (Ref:3889981)   #190
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Well sounds like TCT could have waited, but it’s not it’s fault TCR failed so bad
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 22:10 (Ref:3890007)   #191
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There seems to be a lot of agreement that TCR UK costs too much relative to what you get back, but something that has been bugging me here. How does running a TCR-spec car in TCT seems to be a good idea, when running the same car in TCR isn't?

I'm guessing entries fees include an element to cover the costs of the TCR franchise / licencing / branding, but there must be more to it than that. TCT has less rounds but the per race cost can't be that much different.
I am expecting (and I could be totally wrong!) that most of the cars are going to be ex BTCC machines.
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 22:38 (Ref:3890015)   #192
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I am expecting (and I could be totally wrong!) that most of the cars are going to be ex BTCC machines.
You are probably right, although initially wasn't expecting many BTCC cars either, but I'm talking specifically about TCR spec cars. I've seen many time, some within this thread, that TCT is a work of genius and will kill off TCR UK.

I guess maybe I need to widen the question. There are people with TCR cars running them in Britcar or club saloons. If TCR UK is a lot of money for little exposure then how does running in a club event with even less exposure work?
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Old 12 Mar 2019, 23:37 (Ref:3890021)   #193
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There is around 15-20 TCR spec cars in the country. Few of them want to come out at race in the flagship championship.

Lines went on record at his dissatisfaction at the organisers last year hence he went out to found TCT.

the boss has changed at TCR UK. the track time has reduced. The entry fee presumably hasn't changed.

What was the reason for Motorbase to invest a huge sum into two Golfs only to quickly sell them?

My suspicion is that TCR UK is horrific value for money and unless you're a well heeled racer it's a tough sell to backers in today's climate. It's still relatively unproven in our Motorsport staircase.

Side note I suspect more TCR cars built in total now race in the enduros than sprints. Again value for money, seat time vs cost able to be split between the pilots. TCR in general is basically Hatchback GT4.
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 01:51 (Ref:3890027)   #194
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I guess maybe I need to widen the question. There are people with TCR cars running them in Britcar or club saloons. If TCR UK is a lot of money for little exposure then how does running in a club event with even less exposure work?
Britcar and club saloons are a completely different market. Gentleman drivers and amateurs sharing drives for something like £30,000-60,000, against what was meant to be semi-pro and out-of-work pros running at it for a couple hundred thousand.

I'm only going off of recollections here, but I seem to remember the TCR UK entry fee being excessively higher than other TCR series due to an inclusive parts and spares fee or something like that. It makes sense that Pyro would go to TCR Germany if they wanted to get some decent running with the cars. A large and talented grid with cheaper overall costs and more clients.
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 06:14 (Ref:3890037)   #195
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Mr Lotti had apparently footed the bill for the DSG prize, which the likes of Mr Lines bailed out of, and converted his car to SEQ after the first race meeting.

As for a parts and spares fee, that's an odd one.
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 07:49 (Ref:3890048)   #196
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You are probably right, although initially wasn't expecting many BTCC cars either, but I'm talking specifically about TCR spec cars. I've seen many time, some within this thread, that TCT is a work of genius and will kill off TCR UK.

I guess maybe I need to widen the question. There are people with TCR cars running them in Britcar or club saloons. If TCR UK is a lot of money for little exposure then how does running in a club event with even less exposure work?
TCR UK - high cost, little exposure
TCT - low cost, little exposure

(when compared to flagship series like BGT & BTCC)
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 08:07 (Ref:3890055)   #197
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TCR UK - high cost, little exposure
TCT - low cost, little exposure
Yes, I understand that, but that doesn't answer the question. Why is it lower cost when you are running the exact same car? What specifically makes half an hour of track time in TCR UK more expensive that half an hour in TCT?
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 08:16 (Ref:3890058)   #198
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Redshoes, I absolutely think your question (or rather the answer to it) could well be THE factor or at least a very significant factor.

I don't know the answer, I suspect the only folk that do are the "organisers" or indeed folk who have signed up or have pursued it to then back out.

Essentially unless a team or racer pops up to answer the question I suspect we'll never really know. A bit like BTCC boost calculations!
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 08:23 (Ref:3890059)   #199
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Yes, I understand that, but that doesn't answer the question. Why is it lower cost when you are running the exact same car? What specifically makes half an hour of track time in TCR UK more expensive that half an hour in TCT?
Don't know the exact reasons in this case but, for example, I know two club series that have exactly the same format and one is £100 an event more than the other. Exactly the same in every way. One is run by a national organisation and the other by a local club. The cars are irrelevant to that cost.
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Old 13 Mar 2019, 09:06 (Ref:3890061)   #200
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Yes, I understand that, but that doesn't answer the question. Why is it lower cost when you are running the exact same car? What specifically makes half an hour of track time in TCR UK more expensive that half an hour in TCT?
many reasons. just one is the registration fee for TCT is £1,000
but for TCRUK it was £16,990
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