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Old 9 Jul 2002, 22:08 (Ref:330583)   #1
Yoong Montoya
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Yoong Montoya should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How would a modern F1 car do at the 1967 version of the Nurburgring?

I've driven on the 1967 version of the Nurburgring circuit in GPL and it made me wonder:

How would a modern F1 car do there? What would the average lap time be?
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Old 9 Jul 2002, 22:16 (Ref:330593)   #2
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Before or after it thrashed itself to pieces and tore the bottom off?
Couldn't take it at speed..I'll put it that way...not enough suspension right off the bat...oh that they would have to run the old circuit! hehe
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Old 9 Jul 2002, 22:49 (Ref:330608)   #3
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SL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I agree, the modern F1 would be in bits before 1 lap complete, or the teams would have to have the suspension so high the car would not work. Although a Porsche 962 has done a very fast, if not the fastest lap there so it could be possible.
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Old 9 Jul 2002, 23:25 (Ref:330627)   #4
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A modern F1 car - defintely not. Can you imagine a modern F1 car taking off over those crests?

But the cars would probably fair no worse than the current crop of drivers - there's no way they would handle it.

They would probably see the old Nordschleife more as a rally stage!!!
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 01:06 (Ref:330664)   #5
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Turn the downforce up as far as you can, raise the ride height a bit, stiffen the suspension way up... The driver'd get pounded, but the car should make it... Perhaps minus the front wing.

Jacques or Juan Pablo could do it...
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 01:18 (Ref:330668)   #6
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Turn the downforce up as far as you can, raise the ride height a bit, stiffen the suspension way up... The driver'd get pounded, but the car should make it... Perhaps minus the front wing.

Jacques or Juan Pablo could do it...
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 08:05 (Ref:330804)   #7
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Originally posted by SL
I agree, the modern F1 would be in bits before 1 lap complete, or the teams would have to have the suspension so high the car would not work. Although a Porsche 962 has done a very fast, if not the fastest lap there so it could be possible. SL
Put them in 1967 season cars as well, then let them lose on the Nordschliefe, we would soon find out who the really skilled drivers are.

If you want to be scared silly, get a copy of the video 'In Car 956' filmed in 1982 (I think). As well as in car footage of Le Mans before the chicanes, (the Mulsanne is unbelievably long), you are also get to ride with Derek Bell on the 5th fastest time ever round the Nurburgring. It was the last year the Group C cars raced there, and with the ground effects car you get an idea of just how bumpy a modern F1 car would find it; the Karousel is virtually undriveable.
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 11:25 (Ref:330971)   #8
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paulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpaulzinho should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Boy I'd love to see that, just once.

But no-one would have the guts to do it. If I had a bloomin car I'd give it a go. Whether or not i topped 20mph would be another matter!

Was it Manfred Winckelhock who had that huge flip in the F2 race and walked away? That looked quite scary. Still you only live once.
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 13:34 (Ref:331085)   #9
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For what it's worth, ignoring the fact that no car could finish a lap, one of Ralf's columns in F1 Racing (this would be sometime in 1999) mentioned that Patrick Head had estimated a time of 5:30 for one lap in a modern car.
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 13:57 (Ref:331097)   #10
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Jesus christ!! That's insane!!

Realistically, I don't think a modern F1 car would far so badly. The set up would have to be Monaco-esqe in all respects except for gearing, but yeah, if F1 cars can do the goodwood hill climb, there's no reason why one couldn't do the Nordschleife quite happily.
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 14:09 (Ref:331113)   #11
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Dino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Modern F1's are very sensitive to bumps, uneven surfaces and rideheight (well Interlagos and the weird new first corner at the GP-Ring show that quite well) so it would take quite some thinking, adjusting and a great driver to maximise an F1 car on that track. Then five and a half minutes don't seem unrealistic. Compared to the six minutes record that Stefan Bellof put on the clock in his Porsche 956 during qualifying in 1984, that means an improvement of about 1,5 s per km. Given the Porsche 956 potential and current F1 characteristics that should be possible ... just.
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 16:18 (Ref:331183)   #12
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RT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRT should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

I think the modern F1 cars would make it and perhaps could hold a 20 lap race if driven prudently. I mean, they do already handle bumpy, old tracks. The question may be how many drivers would misjudge the strenght of their cars and (hoping only their pride would be hurt) would end up with the car in two pieces.

Another question, this one regarding Le Mans and the old long, long Mulsanne is how many engines would last the whole stretch at full song?
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 17:09 (Ref:331200)   #13
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Scaring !

Why not try it on a virtual racing ? Is there any game with an add-on with the circuit ?
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Old 10 Jul 2002, 19:11 (Ref:331304)   #14
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If anyone wants an idea of what it's actually like then the link below is a lap I did last year, it is around 10:30 to 11:00 minutes as it was damp and slippery. The camera has a steady system built in so look at the amount the car moves up and down for how rough it is. It was also on a reasonably soft suspension set-up. It is a big file (approx 9MB) so be patient. It also needs at least V7 of WMP. It's on medium quality to reduce the file size.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.an...erburgring.WMV


Personally, if the new F1 cars avoided the banking in the Karussel and Mini Karussel they shouldn't have too many problems, assuming they could stop them flipping over, MB style over the crests.
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Old 11 Jul 2002, 10:40 (Ref:331680)   #15
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strad should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The brittle carbon fibre wishbones would snap if they got airbourne like the old days..plus remember that a modern F1 car has just millimeters of suspension in the form of those flex bits..no way..half of todays suspension is simply sidewall deflection in the tires...nope..not at anywhere near full song.
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Old 11 Jul 2002, 11:36 (Ref:331716)   #16
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Dino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDino IV should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They wouldn't get airborne like the old days, strad, as current F1's produce about one and a half tons of downforce and in the old days they had none. Although the downforce problems at the frontaxle are not as severe as with Le Mans prototypes, given a sufficient bump or hill and a subsequent angle of attack on the undertray of the car and they would take off similar to the flying Merc CLK and Audi Le Mans cars. Perhaps some of our F1 fans of the seventies can tell how F1 did at the Ring in those days and if any accidents occured. Bellof took the 956 with its massive ground effects round at awesome pace and almost matched the speed of the F1's of some year's before, but even that Porsche must have had some bizarre handling effects over the Ring's hills and big bumps.

Great clip, M Coupe! Thanks for sharing that with us. Good steady drive there. Out of curiosity what car is that? Certainly not an M Coupe.
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Old 11 Jul 2002, 12:09 (Ref:331740)   #17
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Thankyou M Coupe you just made it one of my goals in life to do a lap around there, is it had to get onto? do you know if there had drive days or would I have to enter something??? I hope they keep it open long enuff for me to do it. Orsome track
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Old 12 Jul 2002, 15:43 (Ref:332739)   #18
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hey M Coupe, thanks for that, just wondering what car you drove that in?

judging by your name, i would think you drove it in something like a Ford Taurus of some sort?
EEEHH?!?!

Tom.

(Three posts to go)
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Old 12 Jul 2002, 21:14 (Ref:332957)   #19
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Well they may not have had as much downforce but.......
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Old 13 Jul 2002, 00:40 (Ref:333019)   #20
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Jack Racer, as far as i'm aware they hold many open days at the nurburgring where you can drive your own car around the track, i think you just turn up with your own helmet, pay, and off you go! they also have a taxi service which provides on lap of the track by a professional racing instructor based at the track, in a BMW M3!
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Old 13 Jul 2002, 12:05 (Ref:333204)   #21
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Not that there's anything wrong with M Coupe's clip (dude, I am _so_ jealous!), but to _really_ appreciate the 'ring, you need a proper high performance or race car. So here are the links to my favorite clips, both of a guy in a RUF turbo Porsche having _way_ too much fun on the 'ring!

Lap 1, all in-car:
http://w1.movies.taner.net/RUF-Nurburgring-1.wmv

Lap 2, with many shots, including from a helicopter. Not to be missed!:
http://w1.movies.taner.net/RUF-Nurburgring-2.wmv

They're both big files, though, the first around 14mb, the second 13mb. _Great_ stuff, though, as you get to see what's practically a GT2 car on street tires tackling the most fiendish loop of pavement man has ever devised!

Last edited by Lee Janotta; 13 Jul 2002 at 12:07.
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Old 13 Jul 2002, 13:39 (Ref:333241)   #22
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Might have to get me a rental...
cheers Kristof14
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Old 13 Jul 2002, 13:55 (Ref:333245)   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by paulzinho
Was it Manfred Winckelhock who had that huge flip in the F2 race and walked away? That looked quite scary. Still you only live once.
Yeah, that was him, incredible accident, the car came to rest, and everyone expected him to stay stationary...then he gets out of the car in anger and walks away! Amazing!
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Old 13 Jul 2002, 15:47 (Ref:333271)   #24
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My M Coupe name was when I had an M Coupe, but the car in question was a Lotus Elise. It was the standard version, and is very iffy in the wet due to being very light, hence the steady-ish lap.

Will be back there in a month or so with an extra 33% Bhp, lowered and stiffend suspension etc. Just hope it doesn't rain again.

Jack Racer,

Have a look at

http://www.nuerburgring.com/eng/index_e.htm

and click on opening times Northern loop, and you will see the opening hours. It is open most weekends and most evenings. You just need to turn up pay your money and do your laps. I wasn't wearing a helmet in the clip (neither is the nutter in the RuF (that man is clearly mad!)), but if I was going fast then I would. The Ring Taxi is actually a M5 (and needs to be booked well in advance), and laps in around 8m30sec in the dry. It was also the only car which overtook me in the wet

For loads of ring info have a look at

http://www.nurburgring.org.uk
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Old 14 Jul 2002, 00:00 (Ref:333441)   #25
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Just got back from a trip with my 14 yo son to Le mans and Nurburgring GP - if you are ever anywhere near the place when the Nordschliefe is open it is a must do! I think I set the record for the slowest lap ever in a rental Renault Megane diesel, I know how Minardi drivers feel trying to drive whilst looking in your mirrors all the time. 911 GT3's, Elise's, M3's etc - unbelievable - as for the bikers- crazy. Probably the highlight of the trip, a must do!
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