Group 5 BMW 320's.

[driftwood]

thanks for info
can u send me any fotos your man has of cars with interior shots under body/bonnet for reference
if he has any of naked ladies lying across the bonnet best post here!

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by driftwood

if he has any of naked ladies lying across the bonnet best post here!

Haha, didn't know the DRM was that glamorous!

[ian beckett]

Chassis 23 was the HAT(Hohmann Auto Technik) car which they built over the winter of 1977/8.It was raced by Manfred Winkelhock in the 1978 DRM series backed by Wurth,race number 50.The car was the well known one which was white with red and black panels and stripes.For 1979 the team seemed to lack sponsorship and struggled with reliability problems eventually pulling out of the series.The car was driven at the opening round at Zolder by team boss Hohmann and then by Harald Grohs.The car had by now been updated with different arches and was white and black.The team was disbanded although I think this car was raced once at the opening race in 1980 by Helmut Topfl but was never seen again.Hohmann had by now emigrated to Calgary in Canada and took the car plus loads of spares with him.The car was sold to a small team in Calgary and was raced in club events in the region.It eventually found its way to a well known BMW expert in North America Ray Korman who restored it to look like the Citibank sponsored car which had raced in Imsa.He then sold it to a dealer in New Zealand who had it for sale for some time.The car has recently been acquired by Singapore BMW fan and team boss of the Petronas Z4 car David Wong.He is going to restore the car hopefully in Wurth colours and hopes to have it on display at this Septembers Grand Prix.Amazingly this car has now spent time in four continents,Europe,North America,Australasia and now Asia.I wonder how many other cars have that distinction and such an interesting background? Ian.

[kurtiejjj]

Ian, that's a great story! Good to hear it's back with somebody who intends to properly restore it.

Funny thing with this car is that it first actually ran with a Schnitzer turbo engine. Which kept breaking down. At the Nurburgring Eifelrennen in April team manager Dieter Basche had enough of this when the cylinder head played up again during qualifying. He made the decision to return to the workshop convert their car to their in-house developed turbocharged formula 2 engine. All that in just 17 hours, in the process mad Winkelhock broke the lap record for 2 litre cars.

[driftwood]

I had considered that NZ car but owner wanted la la money for what was an unrestored car that didnt have obvious history with it
i saw it was worth half what he asked if wind was in the right direction and i was in a good mood
Mr W has the funds to do the car justice and I am available at short notice to test drive tha car at Sepang !

[ian beckett]

I agree about the price although I do not know what David actually paid.The guy in NZ certainly had it for sale for a long time and because it was very different looking and had no history attached to it in the advert,the origins of the car always puzzled me.We now know that it never had any connection to David Hobbs as was hinted at and what really threw me! To Driftwood,I also put a new thread on this forum yesterday called New photo site? If you go into it and put Avus 1978 into the search box you will find a couple of pictures of your car although sadly from some distance away.I have still not been able to find anything else on your car. To Kurt,any chance of the address of your amateur photographer? Ian.

[driftwood]

i can see 1 poss 2 pics that might be my car
Yes Kurt any news on your contact for more fotos

[kurtiejjj]

I have already asked the photographer for your car drifty; he sadly hasn't found any. But he surely has some underbonnet pics of many 320s. I got some lovely paddock shots of the Zakspeed Capris. Here is his email address: micha2158an at aol.com . Be prepared to part with a few pounds, but that surely musn't be a problem when you have grp5 320 yourself.

Those flickr photos are indeed interesting, there are a few rare shots of the back of the field. Lovely Hatje 2002 turbo, wonder happened to that white escort though

[ian beckett]

Micha is Michael Rabsch,I have used him for over a year now and his photos are wonderful,crisp and full of detail.I have probably bought 200 from him and have another order in at this moment! I am sure that anyone into this era of motorsport would find his photos a delight!Ian

[driftwood]

Be prepared to part with a few pounds, but that surely musn't be a problem when you have grp5 320 yourself. its due to the fact that i have parted with a few pounds to get the Gp 5 i now cannot aford to part with a few pounds for fotos donatations gratefully received

Ian can i ponce some from you? see PM

[kurtiejjj]

Another question about the GS-tuning car; why did the GS-tuning team fit the car with enclosed rear fenders at the hottest race of the season, the norisring? Seems like madness to me.

[74fuely]

I came across these the other day, maybe they would be of some help.

http://www.my2002tii.com/bmw_racing.htm

[driftwood]

great photos on that site thanks for link ive mailed the guy see if he has any pics of my car

[kurtiejjj]

http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/bmw...1/b320x1ss.htm

Which one was this?

[ian beckett]

The history in this advert is largely fictional! Sheckter never drove a 320,the car was not even homologated until 1977! This car was built by Faltz Alpina and its first owner was the Greek BMW dealer.Car never raced in this livery to my knowledge unless in very small club events. Extremely high price was asked for the car and perhaps because of this I do not think it was sold.Would love to know its whereabouts today.....anyone? Ian.

[driftwood]

nope car never sold its stil in greece in red livery covered in dust i saw it in 01/2 he still says its jody driven car and wants lala ££ for it = owner is a cable ****** !

i am not sure if he drove car in UK races in 88 89 or if he drove the Chatfield car in thundersaloons ( what u say Alex?)

[chunterer]

I do recall a Greek sounding name pedalling a 320 over here in some series or other? Wss that the Chatfield car then??

[Alex E]

The car in question was built by Faltz at the end of the `77 season out of spare parts & as Ian cays was sold to the Greek BMW Importer. And I agree that Jody Scheckter never drove a 320, a CSL yes, an Escort yes but not a 320.
I think this car did come to England and raced in Thudersaloon or Modsaloons in the `80`s. But it is possible the Greek chap who drove it was acutally driving one of Brian Chatfields cars. As I think they were friends.
The ad suggests the car is in England ??
alex

[driftwood]

car is in basement in greece covered in dust

[ian beckett]

While pottering around the net this morning I discovered that in Octane magazine the replica of Schnitzer's Wurth/Rodenstock ex-Winkelhock car is advertised for sale, for £184,500! Where do these people get their ideas of valuations from? The car was incorrectly described as 1976 when in fact it was 1979,you would think for that money the vendor would get it right!!!

[kurtiejjj]

Yes, you're right Ian! The information is even available for free in this forum! The vendor must either be blind or stupid (well probably not actually, as I doubt someone stupid has a grp5 320 standing around, that's wrong as well actually as driftwood told us)

Actually now we're talking about South-Africa(n), I remember seeing a report of a group 5 race there, BMW works cars were there (?), Zakspeed also shipped a converted grp 4/5 escort there in 1977.

[driftwood]

Ian he is french so what would u expect!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ian beckett]

Hello Kurt,for the 1977 Kyalami 1000kms the following cars raced....Heyer/J.Sheckter (1st) in Zakspeed Escort,usual colours but sponsored by Findlaters;Hezemans/Hahne/Joest (2nd) also in Zakspeed Escort;Grohs/Hottinger (3rd);Winkelhock/Surer (5th);Stuck/Peterson (retired crash);The last three were in the 320's raced in the DRM as Junior Team cars and were in their usual colours but with backing from Standard Bank.Ludwig/Ertl ran one of Schnitzers 2002 turbos but retired.They were the only Group 5 cars in an otherwise local entry.Hope this helps Ian.

[kurtiejjj]

Thanks Ian! I knew there was a Scheckter involved in this race, I saw a photo of it not long ago in some kind of magazine, however I wasn't sure if he drove a Ford or BMW, now I am. The 'other' Scheckter was in a BMW, though not a 320. By the way the J. Scheckter/Heyer escort is most propably the car that was at the techno classica 2008, now in 'mampe' livery.

[Frank de Jong]

Originally Posted by kurtiejjj

Another question about the GS-tuning car; why did the GS-tuning team fit the car with enclosed rear fenders at the hottest race of the season, the norisring? Seems like madness to me.

As luck will have it I'm just working on the 1977 season. GS (and others) changed their cars from universal form (could also be used for long-distance racing) to sprint form to lose a little weight - the cars with the works kit were far over the minuimum weight. Part of this was the removal of the hydrolic jacks, and removing every possible part from the rear to the front. The radiators therefore (oil as well as water) were moved to the front, so the rear fenders could be closed.