MG withdrawl expected

[Reido Rules]

MG sport and racing are expected to announce a departure from the BTCC, the team is likely to remain in 2003 after WSR seem to have convinced the head honoes to build on the 02 success and see how good MG can be, but WSR have been evaluating ETCC rules, and designing a possible car.

MG directors confirmed that the team may complete 2003, but are unlikely to be in the series in 2004, as the priority is europe and the BTCC campaign has gone as far as they feel it can go.

WSR may build a car independantly with back handers from MG in 2003, in a semi-works fassion, stepping up AK support, but the MG which we know now, maybe over by the end of the season.

A story picked up in autosport.

[Barbazza]

It doesn't say much for their ambition when MG think they have gone as far as they can go by being a minor inconvenience to Vauxhall on their way to yet another title. It's a real shame to hear that just when it seemed the BTCC was starting to get a bit competitive at the front of the grid.

[kmchow]

So MG is considering a move to the ETCC instead huh? And '03 will already see the team downgrade to semi-works status? Hmmm, if MG does pull out and enter the ETCC instead, I wonder what does this mean to the BTCC? Could this be another hint for the BTCC to follow the ETCC rules soon?

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by kmchow
Could this be another hint for the BTCC to follow the ETCC rules soon?

More like TOCA need to start having a set of rules for everybody...

Ok, sorry i just had to say that, but don't take it seriously and nobody else start off the old ETCC BTCC argument...

[spanner]

I didnt think BTCC and ETCC cars were that different. What is the facination with the ETCC? From what i saw earlier in the year its not THAT good. Are they being paid to join or something!!

[Reido Rules]

it promotes to the whole of Europe, and the only way is up, in terms of grid sizes and competition.

The ETCC like the BTCC has got better through the year, but the ETCC offers better marketing opertunities.

[Craig]

They're not getting paid to join - they're simply using the threat to try and force TOCA's hand in the matter of the rpm limit. And they, rightly, are standing firm. What would the series be like if they were allowing MG to have extra revs, Alfa to have big big new wings, etc...? What would be next ? Letting Audi race with a car that is too small for the rules ? Oh no, that's the DTM... my mistake.

[rdjones]

It's a shame if they do pull out - because I do think they have a good chance of landing the championship, but after reading Autosport, it looks like the rally project is also coming to an end and with the cancellation of the works sportscar team, surly that would mean more money the BTCC project............

[Super Tourer]

I agree with Craig, I think it's a bit of a chess game from MG to gain the rev limit they want. MG knew the rules before they entered the BTCC and in true manufacturer style, want them changed to accomodate them.

Traditionally the European market for British cars has been fairly poor. The European car buyers are more partisan than we are in the UK, so I can't see what the ETCC would do for MG cars sales in Italy/France/Germany.

This is an old tactic used many times in sportcars, where big manufacturers would in fact build the cars they wanted, not neccesarily to the exact rules and then threaten to pull out leaving the organisers with a big hole in the series - certain German manufacturer's used this method......

[Kelvin]

A number of my fellow MG fans also believe its bluff..
But what if TOCA call the bluff?
MG were pretty clear I thought!, that BTCC was a 3 year program for sure. MG enjoy the fan base they have here in the UK, I doubt they will enjoy the same in Europe! The MG clearly has the potential to be the fastest touring car ever, its unfair that it should be restricted!! Lets see how quick the car really is!!!!

[Eddie_harasym]

Yep I agree Kelvin and the campaign has certainly increased the awarenes and sales of the zeds.

[BTC-P fan]

In response to the opening post in this thread, that is what I call poetic license. Where does it say in Autosport that they are "expected"? I think it says "could". Evaluating the rules yes, designing a new car? Where did you get that from? WSR building a car independently with money from AK? Stepping up AK support? Nonsense. Rob Oldaker says that no decisions have been made yet and that is correct.

What about running an ETCC AND BTCC works team? The money from the Le Mans programme would allow that to happen. Who says that they are going to run the V6 next year? What if they were at this moment in time developing a 4 cylinder to put into the Rover 75 in order to reduce the emissions in the road car, sales of which are losing out in the fleet market due to the new tax rules?

Why do people enjoy negative speculation? If you have to speculate (make things up?) how about trying positive for a change?
The silly season has certainly started early.

[Cosworth_RS]

Why don't Toca let MG have a 9000rpm rev limit and see what happens? If its a lot faster than the other Tourers then add some ballast.

This should have really been done this season as an experiment, better than watching MG walk away. I can't see the harm in it, so Vauxhall would twist! thats nothing new. Its hardly like letting MG add an aero package to the car.

My guess is the only reason the BMW's have come on in the ETCC is that they are RWD and I don't think are ballasted adequately enough to reduce the advantage. I may have that wrong so don't quote me on that but im sure i read it somewhere.

Seems logical to adapt the rules, what are they going to do with Ford then?

Richard West announces stabilising the rules then says he would consider a proposal from a manufacturer to run a diesel. Maybe i've got this wrong but isnt that adjusting the rules to suit Ford's idea of running a diesel car.

If they have refused MG's request for an increased rev limit, then why don't they ask Ford to come back when they intend to run a petrol 2 litre Focus and stop harping on about all that rubbish to do with it being in the WRC. I know this is straying a bit from the MG subject but im sure some people who follow the BTCC dont follow the WRC and vice versa. So I dont know why the Focus hasnt been run even as a semi works effort, seems stupid to me as Ford need to market the ST170 due to its being soundly beaten in every road test by the Honda.

[neilwaynesmith]

It was giving in to manufacturer demands that allowed cars like the Alfa Silverstone in and led to the proliferation of wings, splitters, bigger wheels, brakes etc. All of which created greater and greater expense and worse and worse racing, until the manufacturers all cried off and left the series as a hollow shell on life-support in 2000.

The organisers should decide the rules, not the manufacturers who come and go as they please.

[racer69]

I find it hard to believe that MG would fully ditch the BTCC, but i think they are definatly headed for the ETCC in 03 or 04.

Maybe the official MG team (WSR) will go ETC and AKR will continue with similiar support to this year in BTCC?

[Cosworth_RS]

If the organisers arent careful, they won't have to worry about rules as they won't have a series.

It has been rumoured that Vauxhall Motorsport, Honda and MG are all considering pulling out at the end of the season. I dont know how much is true but no smoke....

If these new rules are so good and stabilising them is justified then why are manufacturers wanting to pull out?

If organisers arent going to make some concessions then they deserve everything they get if manufacturers pull the plug on their BTCC operations. A rev limit change isnt the same as aero packages. Its a minor concession to allow V6 engines to be more competitive. No way would the MG be as good as the BMW as it doesnt have rear wheel drive.

If things go the way predicted then there may not be a BTCC next year, but hey at least they wont have given in to any manufacturers. Im sure that will be great comfort to the few fans of the BTCC that are left, watching Team AK, the Protons and Egg Sport and Barwell Astras. If this happens then I'm really looking forward to 2003.... not

[MGF]

Yep I agree Kelvin and the campaign has certainly increased the awarenes and sales of the zeds.

Well it worked on me!!

MG do have a point though. As much as I would dearly love them to stay in the BTCC in an official capacity, there is no point for them to do so if they are only playing a supporting role to other manufacturers. MG want to win, and under the present rules they are not going to do that anywhere other than at circuits like Brand indy and Knockhill.

[Alfa Fan]

I've got a very very basic idea which could solve all the problems!

-Allow ALL BTC-Touring Class cars to reve to 9000RPM, 4 Cylinder or V6!

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by Alfa Fan
I've got a very very basic idea which could solve all the problems!

-Allow ALL BTC-Touring Class cars to reve to 9000RPM, 4 Cylinder or V6!

Hardly, that's just raising everyone's revs and not doing anything to solve the problem.

No BTCC next year?! If manufacturers are stupid enough to throw their toy's out the pram when the organisers don't let them have their way is just silly. It doesn't look good on MG's part, and personally I'd have less respect for them. I have brought up this point many times, but when MG entered they knew what the pro's and cons of a V6 were (that is, I presume, providing MG engineers are qualified ). Why is it, after being in Touring Cars for more than a year, and failing to be consistently winning like Vauxhall, do they begin to say the rule's are unfair? Couldn't they have brought up this point before they officially entered?

[runnyhunny]

touringlegend: you are absolutely right. I've been saying the same thing on the tocatour.com forum, but people disagreed.

As usual, a manufacturer decides to throw a wobbler and threaten to walk. Why? Just because they can't compete fairly. Typical.

[KA]

I'm starting to get the feeling that MG/Rover's motorsport programme in general lacks any kind of real focus- they seem to be more concerned with a bit of quick publicity than actually getting any serious results- they've built a brilliant sportscar and barely raced it (apart from the privateers in the USA), entered the BTCC and are suddenly talking about moving onto the ETCC before they've really achieved anything at home, and the rally project seems to be in a state with them dumping the team and taking it in-house- and possibly not competing much for the rest of this year.

I've been a big MG/Rover fan for a long time (it was Rover's ETCC & BTCC campaigns in the 80's that first got me interested in touring cars..), but I really wish they'd get their act together and concentrate on getting a decent return of success for their expenditure- you can't go on being 'promising newcomers' for ever.....

I just hope tis is some kind of bargaining ploy over the rev limit business- and that they don't do what Rover did when they didn't get their own way in the BTCC in the 80's.....

[kmchow]

I think MG was wanting to get PR when they decided to enter almost every form of motorsport. How have their sales been? Have they recovered? I think there must be a little flexibility regarding rules when you have 4,5,6 cylinder, FWD/RWD/AWD cars racing. There are a lot of factors at work. OTOH, I'm not saying you let the manufacturers build whatever they want?

[redshoes]

MG's V6 demands are the thin end of the wedge. If MG get an extra 500 rpm what next, Honda to use a 2.5l engine, Proton get a turbo-charged, Alfa get a 2 lap headstart ?

You're supposed to build the best car possible within the rules, not do a so-so job and adjust the rules to fit.

[Reido Rules]

MG dropped the Sportscars for a CART campaign, which went belly up, as CART changed the rules, but the marque is still evaluating an IRL angine, and to make a few IRL engines to top quality, is the same as about 20 BTCC cars and a couple of Sportscars.

It's not only the cost, but development is ghastly, most Indy/Cart manufacturers buy they're own ovals to test, and have to build huge test and research centre, it's not something that they can do on a shoe string so if MG want to promote to the rest of the world and raise they're game then somehting has to go if the BTCC isn't going where they wnat, then whats the point in staying.

They could also announce that they are to badge an asiatech engine or something, but it's very unlikely like 1in 3billion.

[Speedworx]

The BTCC and ETCC cars are not that different.

BTCC: (Vauxhall Astra)

Two-litre in-line four
270bhp at 8500rpm
front wheel drive
1150kg (includes driver)

ETCC: (BMW 320I)

Two-litre in-line six
260bhp at 9000rpm
rear wheel drive
1155kg (includes driver)

Just an example.