"...Ford...Gone..." - AA

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Why too late? Has the horse bolted? According to what Mr. Nash has to say, horse has not bolted and not is it too late. Just the normal discussions with a sponsor when the existing agreement expires at the end of the year.

Perhaps, but it has been suggested that the Ford dealer network has been told again recently that marketing support dollars are scarce to non existent at a 'Falcon' model level... for 2013 and beyond... so even if the FPR squad actually do something amazing and win something significant, the customer will never find out about it

[bluesport]

Long overdue, Ford prefer to engineer a car for racing on a global scale, not build them for a local series (V8 supercars).........I've tried to tell people before that the category has the wrong attitude to parity and is holden biased. How long did they expect Ford to keep tipping in millions without results? Ford also need to say (as Mazda said) that the Falcon body shape is not to be used in the category.

Bring on GT as Australia's premier category, holden can go and play in commodore cup and the utes.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

An interesting scenario seems to have popped up out of the powder room as a possibility...

... that Ford may be leaving FPR as opposed to V8Supercar for a whole series of performance reasons... and may in fact be shopping for another team to operate a factory-assisted operation...

A story goes that a current non-factory supported Holden team, who may or may not be sniffing around for a works deal with some carmaker or other, may in fact have pitched the blue oval for some factory assistance, to cover the cost of transition, and some contribution to operating budgets for the next few years.

The boys in the powder room are wondering if their ask, of around $1m for a conversion fund, and about the same as an annual contribution.. might be more attractive to them than the current, underperforming 4 car operation that absorbs more than these numbers just buying morning tea for the cast of thousands...

Possible? Maybe.. Probable.. dont quite know...

Presuming any of this actually happened

Great story! If it's true, I'd lean towards BJR.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Perhaps, but it has been suggested that the Ford dealer network has been told again recently that marketing support dollars are scarce to non existent at a 'Falcon' model level... for 2013 and beyond... so even if the FPR squad actually do something amazing and win something significant, the customer will never find out about it

Marketing support at dealer level is for retail advertising - "this week at Billy Blog motors, special deal for a limited time only" type ads. Up to Ford themselves to tell the world about anything FPR win (or not).

Originally Posted by bluesport

Long overdue, Ford prefer to engineer a car for racing on a global scale, not build them for a local series (V8 supercars).........I've tried to tell people before that the category has the wrong attitude to parity and is holden biased. How long did they expect Ford to keep tipping in millions without results? Ford also need to say (as Mazda said) that the Falcon body shape is not to be used in the category.

Bring on GT as Australia's premier category, holden can go and play in commodore cup and the utes.

Bluesport, Ford have in fact seen plenty of results (and good ones) under the parity system you seem to have a problem with. Good thing that they haven't simply sulked, surrendered and given up isn't it? Whether it still makes sense to take part given the well publicised sales decline they're seeing, well that's another question entirely. I'd suggest that you're way wide of the mark with the "global" comment too - whilst Ford DO compete with the GT, GM also compete with the Corvette but more to the point, BOTH of them engineer and develop race cars for domestic series in a wide range of countries.

When Howard Marsden was at the helm of Ford's racing activities here, they went well, when he wasn't, not so much - I'd suggest that Ford competitiveness or not has little to do with the rules and more about the person or people running the program and the approach that is taken.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

One of the problems is that Ford can no longer rely on Falcon sales to keep them profitable.

I look around me and of all my friends, only 2 are into motorsport and watch V8 Supercars. Of those two, neither of them own a large car. One drives a Mazda 3 and the other drives a Nissan Micra (lol).

This means everyone else I am good friends with are making their purchasing decisions based on other forms of advertising. Nearly all of them watch regular TV shows, and a large number watch football codes. Noone, including those interested in motorsport, desire a high powered inefficient car.

This forum obviously attracts motorsport-oriented people and therefore it 'makes sense' for us to have manufacturers advertising in motorsport, but if I was Ford based on my spread of friends, I'd be advertising elsewhere, as much as I think it would be a huge shame to lose Ford from the series.

My own personal experience is quite different. I don't have any friends who aren't into motorsports and very few who like football. I recently bought a new XR6 ute, three other mates have AU or BA utes, but every other one of my friends has a Japanese 4WD dual cab ute, except the one who recently bought a new Captiva. (We're a bit worried about him)

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Bluesport, Ford have in fact seen plenty of results (and good ones) under the parity system you seem to have a problem with. Good thing that they haven't simply sulked, surrendered and given up isn't it? Whether it still makes sense to take part given the well publicised sales decline they're seeing, well that's another question entirely. I'd suggest that you're way wide of the mark with the "global" comment too - whilst Ford DO compete with the GT, GM also compete with the Corvette but more to the point, BOTH of them engineer and develop race cars for domestic series in a wide range of countries.

When Howard Marsden was at the helm of Ford's racing activities here, they went well, when he wasn't, not so much - I'd suggest that Ford competitiveness or not has little to do with the rules and more about the person or people running the program and the approach that is taken.

What is it? Five Bathurst victories for Ford in 20 years, with only two manufacturers?.........Yeah real impressive.

Won no silverware for the past two seasons, 2013 Championship is probably already in the holden bag. Can Ford fluke a Bathurst victory, or will it be three years straight with nothing? (most likely)

Holden to win everything for the foreseeable future?........most likely.

Not hard to tell why Ford are getting out..........the only smart move they've made!

[GTRMagic]

There is nothing stopping FPR from running Fords for another 20 years... but they need to step up their commercial partner search and get a 'Red Bull-esque' backer willing to stump up full tote odds for the signage space... and/or put up their customer pricing

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

There is nothing stopping FPR from running Fords for another 20 years... but they need to step up their commercial partner search and get a 'Red Bull-esque' backer willing to stump up full tote odds for the signage space... and/or put up their customer pricing

But what is in it for Ford? Allowing the Falcon body shape to be used for twenty years and be forever defeated by holden. What's the point?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

But what is in it for Ford? Allowing the Falcon body shape to be used for twenty years and be forever defeated by holden. What's the point?

What's in it for Ford now when they dont activate the sponsorship anyway?

[HProject]

Originally Posted by bluesport

What is it? Five Bathurst victories for Ford in 20 years, with only two manufacturers?.........Yeah real impressive.

As I said in that 20-year Bathurst round-up I posted in another thread (I'd dig it up and quote it, but it'd be off topic. I'm sure you recall it), the vast majority of Ford losses were not down to ill-parity - but rather the luckless nature of their teams and drivers. Sitting there pointing the finger at parity is the easy way out for Ford fans - really the finger should be pointed (if at anyone) at teams like FPR, along with all the builders of faulty cars over the years who simply haven't done as good a job as the guys on the red side of the fence.

It's irritating when people adjudicate motorsport as good or bad depending on whether their side is winning or not - and it happens in the Supercars far too often.

That said, leaving the V8SC's would make sense for Ford - given their lack of results and their seeming lack of interest. But it would still be a massive shame, and you can guarantee that the heads behind the category would be devastated to lose them and a subsequently large segment of their audience.

[Marcos WTF]

Originally Posted by HProject

As I said in that 20-year Bathurst round-up I posted in another thread (I'd dig it up and quote it, but it'd be off topic. I'm sure you recall it), the vast majority of Ford losses were not down to ill-parity - but rather the luckless nature of their teams and drivers. Sitting there pointing the finger at parity is the easy way out for Ford fans - really the finger should be pointed (if at anyone) at teams like FPR, along with all the builders of faulty cars over the years who simply haven't done as good a job as the guys on the red side of the fence.

It's irritating when people adjudicate motorsport as good or bad depending on whether their side is winning or not - and it happens in the Supercars far too often.

That said, leaving the V8SC's would make sense for Ford - given their lack of results and their seeming lack of interest. But it would still be a massive shame, and you can guarantee that the heads behind the category would be devastated to lose them and a subsequently large segment of their audience.

Let henry and his appologists go. Life & motorsport will go on. Instead of
all the hand wringing & blaming the "evil red empire" -in what ever incarnation it be- T8 or HRT or the next Holden team that makes henry his beatch how about assigning some of the blame to the frod teams who consistantly stuff it up.Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory its called.

frod pulled out before and life went on- GASP. There were even frods still
racing without 'factory support'

Didn't frod's Geoff Polites threaten to withdraw from ATCC/V8SC at one point?

Just another empty threat from Broadmeadows/Geelong/Dearborn

[mspence]

Originally Posted by Marcos WTF

Just another empty threat from Broadmeadows/Geelong/Dearborn

Like the 'empty threats' they've used recently in WRC, WTCC.....

[Umai Naa]

Oh, but apparently Ford are coming back to the WTCC. Not sure why though.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Great story! If it's true, I'd lean towards BJR.

I'd actually be thinking GRM, although given their recent success with Holden's it's likely they'd be reconsidering switching.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by bluesport

But what is in it for Ford? Allowing the Falcon body shape to be used for twenty years and be forever defeated by holden. What's the point?

What's in it for Mercedes now?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

I'd actually be thinking GRM, although given their recent success with Holden's it's likely they'd be reconsidering switching.

You might well be on the money there

Getting no financial assistance from a car maker, other than access to an engine program they have to pay for, may be a motivation to switch

[Reload]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You might well be on the money there

Getting no financial assistance from a car maker, other than access to an engine program they have to pay for, may be a motivation to switch

At this stage in his life, would GR be up for the extra work load instead of enjoying the fishing boat and golf course ?

[fomoco]

FOrd gone, AA are slow, Ford Aust has been done for some years, even as a Fordie, this has becoming for long time, Models dropped, imports replacing the line up, Aust is no longer viable to manufacture in, small consumer base, ( Aust 22 mil ppl) do some simple maths, of the 22 mil, how many are at school, how many retired, how many buy imports , how many actually work to keep the country afloat.

Go back in time , most young blokes, built up EH's HR's, XY's etc, todya most young blokes want a new computerto to go into their imported 4cyl .

Ford missed the demographic changes in population, tried to pick up with the territory, know that looks likely to replaced by a Kuga, the Falc to be replaced by Mondeo/Fusion, said to say but its going to happen, Thailand is cheaper to build and so is Indonesia.

The gurus at Broady have missed an oopurtunity to push for the Falcon to be exported to the states under the free trade agreement , instead they keep pushing to build here, sell here, where as GMH have been building and exporting for years, All Braody will become is a holding yard for imports and rebadging.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

What's in it for Mercedes now?

Nothing most likely, time will tell.........in years to come Betty will probably realise that she could have spent her $$$ more wisely elsewhere.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

What is it? Five Bathurst victories for Ford in 20 years, with only two manufacturers?.........Yeah real impressive.

Won no silverware for the past two seasons, 2013 Championship is probably already in the holden bag. Can Ford fluke a Bathurst victory, or will it be three years straight with nothing? (most likely)

Holden to win everything for the foreseeable future?........most likely.

Not hard to tell why Ford are getting out..........the only smart move they've made!

Nah, sorry - if you equate Bathurst victories with parity then you've got it totally wrong - parity is about the opportunity to win and is based strictly on lap times across a wide section of cars across a wide section of laps across a range of circuits. As long as the potential pace of the cars is damn near the same, victories or not depend on team work, strategy, driver performance & mistakes and pure luck. Ford have won PLENTY of silverware over the last two seasons and been in the running for the championship each of the last two years (and won it the year before).

No, trying to blame the series or parity for Ford perhaps walking away is a cop-out - any lack of results can be laid firmly at Ford's door and the teams running their cars but as I said before, the rumoured potential for Ford to walk away probably has more to do with their performance in retail sales right now. Quite why people choose to not buy Falcon is a bit of a mystery as they're a damn good car but nevertheless, people aren't buying them in the numbers they once did.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Nah, sorry - if you equate Bathurst victories with parity then you've got it totally wrong - parity is about the opportunity to win and is based strictly on lap times across a wide section of cars across a wide section of laps across a range of circuits. As long as the potential pace of the cars is damn near the same, victories or not depend on team work, strategy, driver performance & mistakes and pure luck. Ford have won PLENTY of silverware over the last two seasons and been in the running for the championship each of the last two years (and won it the year before).

No, trying to blame the series or parity for Ford perhaps walking away is a cop-out - any lack of results can be laid firmly at Ford's door and the teams running their cars but as I said before, the rumoured potential for Ford to walk away probably has more to do with their performance in retail sales right now. Quite why people choose to not buy Falcon is a bit of a mystery as they're a damn good car but nevertheless, people aren't buying them in the numbers they once did.

There's no mention of parity in the post that you quoted.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

There's no mention of parity in the post that you quoted.

The post I quoted follows on from your previous ones blaming parity and the series for Ford wanting to walk away. If you had moved on, fair enough. My point stands though - IF Ford DO walk away, it'll be more about what's happening with road car sales and the way they've run their racing activities than any alleged mistreatment from V8SC and the rule structure.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

The post I quoted follows on from your previous ones blaming parity and the series for Ford wanting to walk away. If you had moved on, fair enough. My point stands though - IF Ford DO walk away, it'll be more about what's happening with road car sales and the way they've run their racing activities than any alleged mistreatment from V8SC and the rule structure.

OK, the usual rhetoric from a pro holden supporter, but if a manufacturer is prepared to walk away from the series and if IVESCO don't want any manufacturers to leave the series, what are they doing to keep them in?..........nothing? Are they still sticking their heads in the sand or are they taking some action?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

OK, the usual rhetoric from a pro holden supporter, but if a manufacturer is prepared to walk away from the series and if IVESCO don't want any manufacturers to leave the series, what are they doing to keep them in?..........nothing? Are they still sticking their heads in the sand or are they taking some action?

LOL - I'm definitely NOT pro Holden - I actually don't give a flying frock about any of the manufacturers - I'm interested in teams. Been right in the middle of the series and had good results with both Ford & Holden but the team competition is always what I lived for and what still interests me.

Don't know who IVESCO is (but think you're referring to V8SC) and I've got to say that they are doing everything they can for the series to be of interest to all manufacturers, by keeping a level playing field and "opportunity to win" - parity in other words. If the series made the mistake of pampering to a manufacturer every time one of them had a sulk and threatened to leave, we'd be back to the bad old days of Group C and CAMS falling for the threats every time - granting freedoms on an ad hoc basis and in general making a mess of it.

[Reload]

Good old Bluesport up to his usual habit of calling someone pro Holden if they disagree with him