Elva Mk 3, 4 and 5

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by henk4

It is a very nice book.
The problem with the Wimpfen book however is that it does not contain detailed chassis listings, and model specs. Race results have been meticulously examined, but you need to buy a specific annex for those.

The intention was to include that in the book but there was simply so much information that it would have required a second volume for the results listings - there are over 500 pages of results listings (e.g. over 10,000 results!).
But you don't have to buy it, it is available as a pdf for free from the publishers, e-mail them with proof of purchase and they will send you a link to download it.

[begbier]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

The intention was to include that in the book but there was simply so much information that it would have required a second volume for the results listings - there are over 500 pages of results listings (e.g. over 10,000 results!).
But you don't have to buy it, it is available as a pdf for free from the publishers, e-mail them with proof of purchase and they will send you a link to download it.

And one advantage of having the results listings as an electronic Appendix is that they can be updated as and when corrections arre identified and new information comes to light.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

The intention was to include that in the book but there was simply so much information that it would have required a second volume for the results listings - there are over 500 pages of results listings (e.g. over 10,000 results!).
But you don't have to buy it, it is available as a pdf for free from the publishers, e-mail them with proof of purchase and they will send you a link to download it.

Peter,yes, I know all this, I bought my copy at Laguna Seca last year, signed by Moss, Jonas and Bruce McCaw. Jonas advised me how to obtain the annex. My point was that what is missing is a concise overview (with specs) of all models and some insight in the system of chassis numbering, preferably related to the (stllexisiting) cars.

[John Lindsay]

From Bill Hinshaw
First, I think the chassis # 100/49 was on a serial plate mounted to the firewall. However, I once looked into the Elva Owners' website and it was shown as having been once mine but listed as a Mk2. According to Rod Carveth (deceased some 10 years now but once the Elva distributor for this area and a friend of Carl Haas in Chicago, the U.S. importer) the factory did not receive new Mk3 ID plates in time to put them on the cars and so used surplus Mk 2 plates instead with the new Mk3 numbers stamped in.

The first owner, I believe, was a San Francisco social worker named Dan Abbott, who ran the car very unsuccessfully in 1960. Not the car's fault, either, but Dan did his best to stay out of the way, at least. He sold it to Bob Potter, an SCCA driver and used car trader in Oakland. I found it sitting on a trailer at the back of Bob's lot and traded a salvaged Morgan +4 for it. My first run with it was on Sunday at the Stockton event in early '61, my Porsche entry having expired in the Ladies' Race on Saturday. I had done no prep work at all on the Elva and subsequently found that it overheated quickly and so I retired it.

It wasn't until later in "61 that I got a chance to work on the engine, and found on removal of the cyl. head that two of the liners had sunk into the block. Since I had already entered the car for a race at Cotati I took a shortcut "Joe McGee" fix and cut shims from old coffee can lids and stuck them to the tops of the sunken liners with aluminum spray paint and then laid a head gasket on top of that. Amazingly the car seemed to run quite well as we did tests up & down the alley behind Rod Carveth's shop.

Saturday at Cotati came and the car proved a reasonable contender to season's points-leader John Miller in his Lotus Eleven but the clutch was failing fast. That night a shop owner in Santa Rosa made his place available and a group of friends & I installed a new clutch - an MGTD or A, I think - and on Sunday we had a new winner. Miller and I were both equally amazed. Shortly thereafter the Elva Mk6 was announced and I ordered one through Carveth. By December the Mk3 was sold to a guy from Salt Lake City. I should have kept it.
Bill Hinshaw

[Rupertlt1]

In 1962 Bish Hines competed in the Glen Classic; Grand National race in Ontario; Giants Despair Hill Climb at Wilkes Barre, Pa; and Mid-Ohio Race at Mansfield; Queen Catharine Cup at Watkins Glen.


Competition Press, Vol 10-No.7 April 13, 1963:
ELVA Mk III, red, limited use, exceptionally
clean and original, one race on Stage 3 Cli-
max, details, photos available, delivery ar-
ranged, Realistically priced, $2200 firm, Bish
Hines Jr., 550 S. Transit St., Lockport, N.Y.
(716) HF 4-7403

[Rupertlt1]

Originally Posted by John Lindsay

From Bill Hinshaw
First, I think the chassis # 100/49 was on a serial plate mounted to the firewall. However, I once looked into the Elva Owners' website and it was shown as having been once mine but listed as a Mk2. According to Rod Carveth (deceased some 10 years now but once the Elva distributor for this area and a friend of Carl Haas in Chicago, the U.S. importer) the factory did not receive new Mk3 ID plates in time to put them on the cars and so used surplus Mk 2 plates instead with the new Mk3 numbers stamped in.

The first owner, I believe, was a San Francisco social worker named Dan Abbott, who ran the car very unsuccessfully in 1960. Not the car's fault, either, but Dan did his best to stay out of the way, at least. He sold it to Bob Potter, an SCCA driver and used car trader in Oakland. I found it sitting on a trailer at the back of Bob's lot and traded a salvaged Morgan +4 for it. My first run with it was on Sunday at the Stockton event in early '61, my Porsche entry having expired in the Ladies' Race on Saturday. I had done no prep work at all on the Elva and subsequently found that it overheated quickly and so I retired it.

It wasn't until later in "61 that I got a chance to work on the engine, and found on removal of the cyl. head that two of the liners had sunk into the block. Since I had already entered the car for a race at Cotati I took a shortcut "Joe McGee" fix and cut shims from old coffee can lids and stuck them to the tops of the sunken liners with aluminum spray paint and then laid a head gasket on top of that. Amazingly the car seemed to run quite well as we did tests up & down the alley behind Rod Carveth's shop.

Saturday at Cotati came and the car proved a reasonable contender to season's points-leader John Miller in his Lotus Eleven but the clutch was failing fast. That night a shop owner in Santa Rosa made his place available and a group of friends & I installed a new clutch - an MGTD or A, I think - and on Sunday we had a new winner. Miller and I were both equally amazed. Shortly thereafter the Elva Mk6 was announced and I ordered one through Carveth. By December the Mk3 was sold to a guy from Salt Lake City. I should have kept it.
Bill Hinshaw

Competition Press, Vol 10-No.7 April 13, 1963:
ELVA GM 1150-cc Coventry Climax, just rebuilt,
stage 4 and polished. 4 firsts, 5 tries, '62
trailer and spares. $2600 or offer. Inquiries
invited. Sid Horman, 1245 Lake St., Salt Lake
5, Utah. IN 7-4082.

[Rupertlt1]

Originally Posted by Rupertlt1

ELVA Mk III, red, limited use, exceptionally
clean and original, one race on Stage 3 Cli-
max, details, photos available, delivery ar-
ranged, Realistically priced, $2200 firm, Bish
Hines Jr., 550 S. Transit St., Lockport, N.Y.
(716) HF 4-7403

Correction - Ref should be:
Competition Press, Vol 10-No.6 March 30, 1963.

[hisbn1]

I own MK IV #100-86 and during one of the sessions at the recent Elva reunion in New Jersey the lower strut/arm off of the left rear upright casting sheared at the hub. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might have a lead on a replacement part.

I have seen photos of the rear suspension of a MK V and it looks like Elva saw fit to reinforce this piece in steel. I wonder if anyone knows or has any thoughts on whether the hub carrier/upright from a MK V might fit a MK IV. If so it would seem that this would be a worthy upgrade.

Thanks in advance--Michael Oritt
michael.oritt (at) gmail.com

[MichaelOritt]

What has happened to this forum?
Why have there not been any posts in several years?
(Yes, I know I have not contributed any but that is not my point....)

[Jay Laifman]

I'm adding one here - even though I don't have a Mk3-5. We just bought a Mk6 and are trying to track its history. The factory notes say that the first purchaser was "HOUNTINGLY." We suspect this is not a real name. We understand these names were handwritten by someone after hearing the names orally. One current thought is that this was really something like "Hun-Ting Lee." We also note that an early Mk6 (60/06) was sold to a "LEE." So perhaps this is the same person. We're also told that these names could be the actual buyer, or a shop that is getting the car for the buyer, or an employee at the shop.

As an aside, another possibility we explored was "Hunton Ganley" for "Hountingly" the racer from New Zealand, who in 1962 wrecked his Lotus 11, needing a new car, and moved to the UK - so a possibility. However, I actually spoke with Hunton, and it wasn't him.

The reason I'm posting here is that I'm wondering if there might be a "Lee" who purchased an earlier Elva, and I might be able to get more information on him.

I am ordering the book. But my family is always struggling to find a birthday present for me. So they are insisting that they get this for me, but wait until my birthday. So I can't search the race results to see if any show a "Lee" or "Hong-Ting Lee" or something similar. I have searched racingsportscars.com with no luck. The Watkins Glen archives did not have anything either.

Also, one other question. So many of these cars were sold out of Haas in Chicago. Are there any former Haas employees still around? I'd love to ask them if they might remember Hountingly or Lee at their shop.

[MichaelOritt]

It's a bit of a stretch but Lee Chapman Racing in, I believe, Connecticut has been involved with Elvas and other British SR's for years. May want to check with him as if he is not the right Lee he may nevertheless know something about the car.

[Jay Laifman]

Thanks! I'm assuming that the Lee has no connection.

But, I appreciate the reference. I've emailed them about other questions I have on tracking down a different Mk6.

[mstets]

You might give Haas a call. Perhaps they can put you on to someone who worked there at the time.


https://www.haasauto.com/contact_us/

[begbier]

Originally Posted by Philbel

Hi henk4,
found nearly the same infos on conceptcarz, classic driver, etc ....
but nothing prévious.

they're should be some pics in the Elva book ( going to order it )

Would like to find more infos on the Fergusson/Baird Elva MkV, 1960 1000 km of the Nurburg

thanks

Hi,

Did you ever discover anything of the early history of 100/94?

The Fergusson/Baird 1960 Nürburgring 1000km entry was actually a Courier, not a MkV sport racer.

Cheers,

Rod

[Dodgedoug]

Originally Posted by begbier

Period ownership and race history now largely pieced together for this early MkIV:

April/June 1959 : Purchased by Peter G Mullard and road registered in the Oxford area with number '180 JFC'

July '69 - Sept '60 : Entered by Mullard in various UK race meetings, including the Members' Meeting at Goodwood in May 1960

May '61 : Advertised for sale in Motorsport magazine, eventually acquired by Bob King (of Royale Racing Cars fame) as a trade-in against a road car

July '61 : Class win and fastest time of the day at Brands Hatch in Sevenoaks & District Sprint meeting

Aug - Oct '61 : Further raced by King at Mallory Park (Nottingham Sports Car Club), Brands Hatch (BRSCC) and Silverstone (BRDC)

Late '61 : Advertised for sale in Autosport and purchased by William T. "Bunny" Ribbs in California

April '62 - June '62 : Raced by Bunny Ribbs at Stockton, Cotati and Laguna Seca before he moved up to a MkVI for 1963. Car was crashed at last race meeting at Laguna Seca.

Late '62 : Sold to Jerry Faught and Dave Ferguson. Repairs appear to have taken some time!

Oct '64 - Mar '69 : Raced by Faught at various meetings in California and by Ferguson in at least one meeting in Canada

Photos exist of the car being raced by each of the first owners but uncertainty over copyright restrictions prevents posting. So, attached is one of the current owner driving it at Donington Park, UK during 2011. It is running the correct 1098cc Coventry Climax FWA engine as used for UK small displacement sports racing in the late 1950s.

Hoping to hear details of more MkIVs that are still racing via this forum.

Rod

I purchased the car from Jerry Faughtaround 1970 and started work to prep for racing with Climax engine but sold the unfinished car a few years later to a person who lived in Fresno California. I couldn’t find all the parts at the time and this person was to contact me but never did. Eventually sold the parts.

[begbier]

Hi Doug,

Sorry for slow reply. Did you happen to have a name for the person you sold the car to? I believe it was later purchased after being found rotting away in a yard in Mendota.

Cheers,

Rod

[Jay Laifman]

Originally Posted by mstets

You might give Haas a call. Perhaps they can put you on to someone who worked there at the time.


https://www.haasauto.com/contact_us/

Long time responding. I did contact Haas. They didn't have anything on the "old" stuff anymore.

But we did find the full history now on our car. The original owner was Mr. Pat Hovenden, who raced it in the UK, and then Brian Hegbourne (whose famous F2 racer brother Tony drove the car too), then to Canada and the US for a great and long racing history - and lots of pictures. I've spoken with all the prior owners back to the one who bought it from the first Canadian owner, and have been able to get lots of papers, pictures and info on the car. I have even spoken to Pat's business partner at the time of the Elva, and separately to his racing partner at the time (a noted Lotus historian actually), who both provided great information about the car. It has been a great journey.

[MichaelOritt]

I may or may not have posted this previously but in any case I am the current owner of ELVA MKIV/86L, having purchased it from Tom Grudovich in approximately 2012. It was powered by an FWE when I bought it and now has an FWB (1460). I race it frequently in eastern-US vintage events with good results.

From what I know the "L" in the serial number refers to "Long" and reportedly there are four additional inches between the firewalls than in non-L cars. The cockpit is certainly roomy but I merely seek verification of this fact (if it is a fact).

I also wish to announce that I have a full set of high-quality MK IV body molds and if any MK IV owner needs replacement body parts please make contact at: michael.oritt@gmail.com. They are NOT available for the building up of a "new" car--only for repairing an existing and original IV.

Best--Michael Oritt

[MichaelOritt]

Somehow or other the Lady Godiva medallion on the valve cover of my FWB became separated from its parent. I have no hope of recovering it and wonder if anyone can point me toward obtaining a replacement. Suitable reward available....

Pease reply to my email below.

Best--Michael Oritt
michael.oritt@gmail.com

[begbier]

*

[MichaelOritt]

A while back I was able to make contact with my car's fourth owner, who verified some of what I knew and supplied some new info, and I have pieced together most of my car's history. According to online records of races in the Washington DC/MD/VA area I found the following chain of ownership:

1959-1963: Don Knight (associated with Continental Motors of Washington DC
1964-1968: Dave Roethel
1966-1969: Tom Shaffer (dates overlap unexplainable--perhaps co-driven)
1969-1970: Phillip Snyder
1971 to approximately 1999: unaccounted for
2000 to 2003: Tom Clifford and Tom Ellsworth (old logbooks have disappeared)
2004 to 2009: Tom Grudovich
2009 to present: Me

The car was repowered at some point from an FWA to an FWE and after a couple of years' ownership I put in a 1460 FWB.

[begbier]

Further to posts #25, #29 and #31, some new information recently came to light suggesting that the finder and restorer of my Elva-Climax MkIV may have got themselves a bit confused.

To explain, sometime in the late 1980s Charles Crail discovered my car, chassis 100/74, as a classic barn find in rural California. He already owned the remains of a second Elva MkIV (100/77L) and in 1990 did a deal with another Californian car restorer - Franklin “Rudy” Rudolph - trading both cars in exchange for an Elva Formula Junior. Rudy then went on to restore the more complete of the two cars - chassis 100/74 - and sold the scant remains of 100/77L to a well-known Elva collector.

Crail told Rudy that the previous owner said that chassis 100/74, had been raced by William T. “Bunny” Ribbs in the 1962 race season and, indeed, period photos exist showing Ribbs driving a MkIV at various tracks in California during that time. However, some new information obtained recently indicates that Bunny’s car was almost certainly chassis number 100/77L and not 100/74.

This begs the question as to the period race history of 100/74, a very early chassis number in the run of Mark IVs, and requires a bit more detective work. That work is ongoing but, with a maximum of around 30 Elva Mk IVs having been built, by eliminating known cars, closely examining period race results and taking account of geography, the prime candidates are the cars raced in 1958/1959 by:

John D. Peters (North Hollywood, CA)
- raced initially in UK (1958/59) and then California (1959)
- covered in the János Wimpffen book

A.S ‘Curley’ Brayer (Phoenix, AZ)
- Arizona Elva dealer
- 1959 Jerome hillclimb and SCCA El Paso, Del Mar, Santa Barbara

William A. Parham Jr. (Fort Worth, TX)
- ran at December 1959 Nassau races and SCCA Galveston (1960)
- also raced a Courier

Any information, additive or corrective, would be warmly appreciated.