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27 Jun 2011, 16:49 (Ref:2906910) | #1 | |
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Are F1 cars too reliable?
Jarno Trulli says that car reliability is harming the sport.
Trulli argued that the perfect reliability was taking another human element out of F1. "In any case, this record is a bit paradoxical and has a precise significance: the Valencia race in my opinion has indicated another winner, besides [Sebastian] Vettel as usual. That winner is technology," the Lotus driver continued. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92703 Any thoughts? |
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27 Jun 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2906931) | #2 | ||
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The reason they are so reliable is because they are so restricted.
Back when they were experimenting with all sorts of ideas there was more scope for things to break down. |
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27 Jun 2011, 17:25 (Ref:2906933) | #3 | |
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All the time the teams are penalised heavily for unreliability - engine and gearbox failures in particular - we will have to live with the consequences.
Take away some of the drivers 'toys' like rev limiters, clutch protecting software, anti-stall, flappy-paddle automatic sequential gearchanges and let the drivers break the cars maybe? They surely would break more often.... However, I think it's good that we don't get many structural/suspension/wing failures (which aren't caused by accidents) as that obviously means improved safety. |
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27 Jun 2011, 17:38 (Ref:2906939) | #4 | ||
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I can't see that they can be "too reliable", all the drivers out there want to at least finish the race for the team and sponsors that cost millions in what is presumably the pinnacle of motorsport.
Agreed that they are made to almost be "idiot proof" but then if you was footing the bill I would think you would want them to be ! |
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27 Jun 2011, 17:55 (Ref:2906947) | #5 | |
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I wouldn't mind 100% reliability, if only the regs permitted close racing.
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27 Jun 2011, 18:20 (Ref:2906960) | #6 | ||
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It seems that F1 has come to a phase in its history where F1 engine development has become impossible to carry out because it already reached its limits a long time ago. The only thing left now is for one engine to last an entire season! |
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27 Jun 2011, 18:31 (Ref:2906965) | #7 | ||
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What's wrong with reliability anyway ?
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27 Jun 2011, 18:39 (Ref:2906973) | #8 | |
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27 Jun 2011, 18:57 (Ref:2906984) | #9 | ||
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Apart from Lotus/Virgin/HRT, any driver can score points on any given Sunday - compare that to the days of poor reliability & actually races have become MORE competitive as reliability has improved.
Back in that period, you still had teams with no chance of points (Simtek, Pacific, Forti) but then your next bottom 3-4 (Minardi, Footwork, Tyrrell) would only pick up points in a race of attrition |
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27 Jun 2011, 19:25 (Ref:2906989) | #10 | ||
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i miss the attrition, the glow of overheating brakes and giant plumes of blue smoke burst from the back of engines...but of course dont want to see more of it at the expense of safety.
in a way its a shame though, these cars are only required to run a certain distance every fortnight when they are capable of running a far longer distance. so if this is about money and getting sponsors value then increase the length of the race. if its about entertainment and fitting a race into a nice TV window then allow for greater uncertainty and entertainment. radically cutting the amount they have to spend might help achieve this goal. |
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27 Jun 2011, 19:25 (Ref:2906990) | #11 | |||
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27 Jun 2011, 19:35 (Ref:2906995) | #12 | ||
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the fan in me says its a shame that the uncertainty of a murray walker 'AND LOOK AT THAT!" moments is all but gone, with the chance of a serious mechanical malfunction reduced to levels never seen before.
however the engineer and engine builder thinks its great. |
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27 Jun 2011, 19:42 (Ref:2906998) | #13 | ||
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27 Jun 2011, 19:48 (Ref:2907000) | #14 | |
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Well....I suppose so. Certainly Schumachers engine blow-up at Suzuka in 2006 was a very recent example of reliability probably costing a driver a championship.
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27 Jun 2011, 20:12 (Ref:2907011) | #15 | ||
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27 Jun 2011, 20:25 (Ref:2907016) | #16 | ||
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I guess Massa, leading in Hungary, 3 laps to the end is the most recent, isn't it ? It certainly cost him critical points for the WDC in the end.
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27 Jun 2011, 21:41 (Ref:2907048) | #17 | ||
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I agree. The problem is not one of reliability - random failures - but that they're hard to break through poor/clumsy driving. Added that you don't even need to remain within the confines of the circuit most of the time and precision is no longer a desirable skill in driver. A Prost would be nowhere now with no requirement to look after the equipment or use the circuit to the maximum and no more and for me, that is what is spoiling F1 racing.
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28 Jun 2011, 02:50 (Ref:2907111) | #18 | ||
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Racing is supposed to improve the breed and for decades F1 innovations have trickled down to ordinary road cars.
Now perhaps, the reverse is happening. Modern road cars are vastly more reliable and easier to drive than those of decades ago............ |
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28 Jun 2011, 02:54 (Ref:2907113) | #19 | ||
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Montoya's 2 failures in 2003 proberbly cost him the title too. Going back to Schumacher, in his 5 championship winning seasons, 2000-2004 he had only 8 retirements in 85 races (4 of them - 50% in 2000 alone!) so that proberbly went some way to helping him win those titles. And while Michael had 2 retirements in 2006, it's worth pointing out that Fernando did too, so i'd say that it's status quo
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28 Jun 2011, 08:31 (Ref:2907190) | #20 | ||
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Guy in very slow car wants faster cars to break more shock!
I do like to see things mixed up, but I don't like seeing driver's win races (or indeed championships) because of bits breaking, I prefer to see the best man win. Anything which breaks due to poor driving is fine as that's part of their skill, but not pure unreliability. I disagree F1 cars are in any way easy or idiot proof however. Its an easy thing to throw at it from an armchair, but we've all seen programmes where professional drivers (not race drivers thought granted) struggle to keep an F1 car in a straight line let alone go fast. |
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28 Jun 2011, 09:42 (Ref:2907215) | #21 | |||
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20 years ago, when you had grass and gravel traps, you'd have several cars in each race beached on grass verges or in gravel following driving errors. Todays circuits are too much like a video game where it doesnt really matter if you go outside the confines of the track. Also, in the past, when there were no engine restrictions a weaker team could take the strategic decision to tune their engines to the limit so they'd either score points or blow up. Todays weak teams dont have this option and so are confined to the rear of the field. |
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28 Jun 2011, 10:00 (Ref:2907225) | #22 | ||
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I honestly think no gravel contributes alot to this.
I watched the F2 at Spa yesterday and was horrified to see a number of drivers trying a 'Kimi' round the outside of La Source on the opening lap. Please tell me why there isn't gravel half way down the outside of that turn...?!?! I understand the tarmac run-off for the actual run-off of the turn, but the tarmac continues round the exit of the turn, too! Why?! Talk about making more work for yourselves. It instantly brings up the argument of: Steward: "You had all four wheels out of the driving zone and gained position" Driver: "But I was 'avoiding a potential accident'!" If there's gravel there, no one's going to try these dodgy moves. It's so dangerous, as well. Everyone's coming out of La Source slowly, then you have matey coming back on to the track at a higher speed because his short-cut it (well, long-cut if you will). I always loved seeing a driver make an error then try his hardest to keep the thing in a steady, straight line over the gravel to keep the car running! It's the idea of a mistake being punished by the environment that I like, rather than a steward's enquiry. I really feel it could take the weight off the stewards shoulders, too. Selby |
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28 Jun 2011, 10:57 (Ref:2907257) | #23 | ||
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Yes, modern cars are more reliable and easier to drive, but that was always going to happen, with or without F1. Ironically, the main problem with modern road cars is that of unnecessary electrical complication. |
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28 Jun 2011, 15:18 (Ref:2907401) | #24 | ||
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Machining and design tech has improved considerably over the last 10-15 years - much more accuracy is available both in design and manufacture. This means better reliability, and this is why mechanical reliability is so good in road cars - electrical reliability isn't however, in either F1 (Kers) and road cars. Nowadays, road cars break down because (usually) of electrical problems, not mechnical (The road going Honda VTEC engine I believe has *never* suffered a provably mechanical failure which was down to bad manufacture/design).
Although the rules do force reliability, to finish first you first need to finish, so reliability still trumps ultimate power, whether you want reliability or not. And F1 cars are not idiot proof. I doubt anyone here could drive one! |
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28 Jun 2011, 17:13 (Ref:2907480) | #25 | ||
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