Who has the most powerful and reliable engine for 2007/8?

[Greenback]

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[FPV GTHO]

An interesting read. With the 19000rpm cap i'd imagine Renault's V8 will probably be a bit more dominant as a few of their rivals went for the high rev route, which now has to be backtracked. Renault meanwhile have an engine that wont be too far off optimum tune for the rev limit.

[Greenback]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

An interesting read. With the 19000rpm cap i'd imagine Renault's V8 will probably be a bit more dominant as a few of their rivals went for the high rev route, which now has to be backtracked. Renault meanwhile have an engine that wont be too far off optimum tune for the rev limit.

I believe Ferrari will be the same too because they have shed some weight to their engine to compensate for the power lose. Guess that must be the reason for MD's DNF at Suzuka.

[Marbot]

Best engine would have been the Cosworth IMO.

Which one now?

Well they all have 90 degree V angles,8 cylinders,4 valve heads,probably the same bore and stroke,probably weigh the same,are not allowed to use exotic materials and now have a 19,000rpm rev limit.So from a power point of view they'll be bugger all in it.

However the best engine will be the one that can run at that limit the longest throughout any given weekend without going belly up.

[SALEEN S7R]

Does anyone have any idea of power levels? Im guessing 750-800bhp for the top engines with the ones not quite so good around the 700-750bhp mark.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Does anyone have any idea of power levels? Im guessing 750-800bhp for the top engines with the ones not quite so good around the 700-750bhp mark.

I don't think that you'd be looking at more than 10-20bhp (@19,000rpm) difference between the whole lot!

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Best engine would have been the Cosworth IMO..

Ah but the Cosworth was another one of the ones that revved its guts out, which is why i think the Renault's will seemingly improve for next year. Theyre already pretty much already optimally tuned for 19K rpm

[Greenback]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Best engine would have been the Cosworth IMO.

Which one now?

Well they all have 90 degree V angles,8 cylinders,4 valve heads,probably the same bore and stroke,probably weigh the same,are not allowed to use exotic materials and now have a 19,000rpm rev limit.So from a power point of view they'll be bugger all in it.

However the best engine will be the one that can run at that limit the longest throughout any given weekend without going belly up.

I personally think that Merc should engage them to beef up their engine department. really sad to see them trailing behind the smaller and younger team.

[neilap]

I think Honda has put a lot of stock in their 07 motor. They waited till the last moment to submit it. I think it may be the most developed of the lot. As martyn said though, the difference will be minimal it will be the drivability. Honda believes this motor will be more powerful than their 06 even with the reduced revs.

I dont know if the motors by Ferrari and Renault were necessarily the best. Their combination was the best.

[FPV GTHO]

Honda waited so long to submit because as a result of bringing the '07 program forward, it became unreliable. The extra time was taken to get one to last 2 races so it could still be submitted.

[Taz Q2]

Their surely getting more than 800hp out of one of these engines, Nascar gets this out of a 302 with pushrods, a carby, & a restrictor plate @ 10500 rpm.

I would think it could be more like the 1000hp mark out of these engines, & i could not be surprised if that figure was in the plus bracket heading for 1100.

Please excuse me if i'm way off the mark, but F1 is supposed to be just that, & personally i'd be a bit embarrassed as a manufacturer if i was making no more power than a fifty year old engine with a restrictor plate. Lmfao if that was the case.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Their surely getting more than 800hp out of one of these engines, Nascar gets this out of a 302 with pushrods, a carby, & a restrictor plate @ 10500 rpm.

I would think it could be more like the 1000hp mark out of these engines, & i could not be surprised if that figure was in the plus bracket heading for 1100.

Please excuse me if i'm way off the mark, but F1 is supposed to be just that, & personally i'd be a bit embarrassed as a manufacturer if i was making no more power than a fifty year old engine with a restrictor plate. Lmfao if that was the case.

302 cubic inches,hmmm........how many cubic centimetres is that?

You know what they say over there."There's no substitute for cubes."

Mercedes got about a 1,000bhp out of a 5 litre pushrod in the mid 90's.It was a loophole in the Indy car regs.They ran it at Indy.A modern day F1 engine is less than half that capacity but produces an extra 50% per litre in comparison.

And if suddenly the 2.4 V8 engines were producing 1,000bhp you can bet that it wouldn't be too long before we got 1.8 V6's or a lower rev limit.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Their surely getting more than 800hp out of one of these engines, Nascar gets this out of a 302 with pushrods, a carby, & a restrictor plate @ 10500 rpm.

I would think it could be more like the 1000hp mark out of these engines, & i could not be surprised if that figure was in the plus bracket heading for 1100.

Please excuse me if i'm way off the mark, but F1 is supposed to be just that, & personally i'd be a bit embarrassed as a manufacturer if i was making no more power than a fifty year old engine with a restrictor plate. Lmfao if that was the case.

Sure its not 352?

Dr Theissen made the comment towards the end of the season the engines were pretty much at the same specific output the V10's had gotten to. Assuming the average 2005 spec V10 was 950hp then gives you a 2006 V8 at around 760hp. Cosworth's V8 started the season at around 745hp according to sound analysis, and BMW were around 730hp with the majority of the field.

The V10's would have to have cracked 1000hp for Dr. Theissen to incinuate the V8's are at 800hp.

[Taz Q2]

Yep, fair call there lad, forgot about the 2.4 factor with no aspiration.

FPV, they are difinately 302 mate, same as our boys in supercars, which has all ways had me wondering why we could never get the same HP as the yanks, but then i know that they diamond coat everything internal which is an unbeleivable cost that most teams could not afford out here.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

FPV, they are difinately 302 mate, same as our boys in supercars, which has all ways had me wondering why we could never get the same HP as the yanks, but then i know that they diamond coat everything internal which is an unbeleivable cost that most teams could not afford out here.

V8 Supercars are 305cu.in. to be exact, the category allows for a 5000cc limit.

As for NASCAR, 4th paragraph: http://www.nascar.com/2006/news/head...yates.engines/

[Notso Swift]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

Yep, fair call there lad, forgot about the 2.4 factor with no aspiration.

FPV, they are difinately 302 mate, same as our boys in supercars, which has all ways had me wondering why we could never get the same HP as the yanks, but then i know that they diamond coat everything internal which is an unbeleivable cost that most teams could not afford out here.

They are not they are 5.8 litre. They also have no rev limit, are tuned for a very narrow rev range and run on 140 RON fuel.
If you remember back in the early days of the "Supercar" formula Moffart got a bunch of NASCAR motors built to 5.0 lires and was soon convinced...

[Pro Racer]

so if they are 5.8 they are more similar to a 351.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by pwr fan

so if they are 5.8 they are more similar to a 351.

See one of above posts.......358 ci......that's 5867cc.

Strange capacity limit really.....??

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

probably the same bore and stroke

Bore size is fixed, therefore stroke is also fixed. Stnadard centre of gravity (i think), it'll all be down to engine mapping, drivability and reliability.

Also for the teams that went for the high rev route the rev cap wont be a huge issue, some engine remapping and as the internal components would need to be lighter to rev faster it is likely that their engines will reach the 19,000 limit faster than their rivals which means better acceleration.

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally Posted by Taz Q2

personally i'd be a bit embarrassed as a manufacturer if i was making no more power than a fifty year old engine with a restrictor plate.

Just because the Nascar engine is running Carbs and Pushrods doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of high tech innovation going on in there. It is a common misconception that Nascar lives in the past technically (good article in Race Tech magazine on this subject). they are limited with the carb and pushrods and therefore need to utilise the highest technoligy to squeeze the last bit of performance out of the engine.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Smokey 6 litre

they are limited with the carb and pushrods and therefore need to utilise the highest technoligy to squeeze the last bit of performance out of the engine.

It's a good job that technology is limited in some way.Can you imagine F1 cars (or any car for that matter) with active suspension,ground effect and state of the art 1.5 litre turbo engines!

[Taz Q2]

[quote=Notso Swift]They are not they are 5.8 litre. They also have no rev limit,

Well has been a couple of years since i followed the racing over there & they were a 302 capacity engine, i did'nt know they had allowed more cubes.

I do beleive they have a rev limit on the big tracks no.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

It's a good job that technology is limited in some way.Can you imagine F1 cars (or any car for that matter) with active suspension,ground effect and state of the art 1.5 litre turbo engines!

errr, I can imagine an F1 car with slick tyres, active suspension, active aerodynamics, uninterupted delivery gearboxes and hybrid 3.0 litre turbocharged powerplants... mmmm, I'm salivating.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Matski

mmmm, I'm salivating.

Which is quite likely,if you were driving one.Just shortly after you 'blacked out' at the first corner.