More controversy surrounding 2014 engines

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Deep down, F1 fans are just petrolheads just like all the rest of motorsport people are (except truck racing, obviously). Yes, there are diesel engined racing cars/vehicles here and there, but they are somewhat unloved by the viewing public.

So, a series like F1 has got to be careful about what it feels is relevant to making it acceptable to the fans as well as challenging to the manufacturers supplying the engines.

Motor sport fans are more likely to accept silent of awful sounding engines if the government body did not force teams to use them. Although the current 2,4-litre V8 Formula 1-engines sound a lot better than the turbo-dieselengines used at Le Mans, I like the latter more.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

the only people it would upset is the greens and anything faster than a 2cv frightens them anyway. Why pander to a minority at the expense of sport?

Unfortunately these are the SOB's that make up so much of local body govt world wide that controls where and when we can play with our toys

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Unfortunately these are the SOB's that make up so much of local body govt world wide that controls where and when we can play with our toys

Need to vote them out then. These pollies sometimes forget they are our employees, not the other way around.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJqQ1sxhOhs

MECHANICAL MUSIC!

Motor racing needs to be noisy.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Motor racing needs to be noisy.

Do you remember that Top Gear a few years back when they drove a Hyundai Accent which had been fitted with a device for making the car sound different? You just selected the type of engine to be reproduced (V8, straight 6 or whatever) and pressed a control button, and the noise was replicated when you accelerated or changed gear.

Maybe that's what Bernie's got planned. Some of the "Fanboyz" wouldn't even notice.

[Marcus666]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I love the Superleague motors, they sounded beautiful.

Hopefully now that Superleague is dead, the cars and engines will get turned loose on the market so private individuals can run them.

I was never a fan of F1 even moving away from 3.0 liter V10's, so going to 1.6 V6 engines doesn't impress.

Well, I think the Superleague engines would sound much better if they were able to hit 15-16.000 rpm instead of just 11-12.000 .

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJqQ1sxhOhs

MECHANICAL MUSIC!

And they sounded even better in the flesh... It's what Grand Prix cars should sound like !

[Oldtony]

I'm a 75 year old ludite who loves the sound of V12s.
But this seemingly automatic assumption that any change or dimunition of noise wil hurt attendance at F1 races needs a bit of thought.
I know a number of people who have attended an F1 GP who will never go back because the sound hurts!
The other point is that noise is the major limitation on the sites and format of race tracks.
Why continue deliberately maximising the problem when the natural fit for new F1 engines offers both technological relevance and some easing of what many would call the "noise problem?"

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Motor sport fans are more likely to accept silent of awful sounding engines if the government body did not force teams to use them. Although the current 2,4-litre V8 Formula 1-engines sound a lot better than the turbo-dieselengines used at Le Mans, I like the latter more.

I don't think that just because the FIA didn't force the teams to use something other than petrol engines, the fans would be any more excited about silence. The teams also know what fans like and don't like.

I love diesel engines, for some things you just can't beat diesel. You may have noticed my Avatar, for example. However, when it comes to motorsport, I want to be able to experience that feeling you get when 8, 10 or 12 tiny pistons are doing their utmost to cause controlled chaos in the most violent manner possible. Motorsport has an emotional side to it, and certain kinds of noise are a part of that.

I'm not against the V6 turbos or even diesels from a technical point of view, but are they right for F1?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'm not against the V6 turbos or even diesels from a technical point of view, but are they right for F1?

Diesels ? I don't think so.

[gregtummer]

Well the difference for Le Mans is that the Audis (and previously the Peugeots) are the only ones silent as you get a lot of different engine sounds at Le Mans.

But nobody would accept an entire field of silent cars.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Well the difference for Le Mans is that the Audis (and previously the Peugeots) are the only ones silent as you get a lot of different engine sounds at Le Mans.

But nobody would accept an entire field of silent cars.

This is true. I watched some electric bikes race at Silverstone not too long ago. and there was definitely something missing. Fortunately their batteries precluded a lengthy experience of them whirring and buzzing around the track.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by davyboy

And they sounded even better in the flesh... It's what Grand Prix cars should sound like !

Fast, nasty, dangerous and powerful!

(Not like a bloomin sewing machine!)

[Marbot]

Prost could track test Renault's new V6 in the next two months. He knows a bit about turbo engines does that man.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102998

Renault would be the first to make their feelings known to all, if the new engines were to be banned.

[VIVA GT]

I think we need an important distinction here:
Noise = Something that can be unpleasant and hurtful.
Sound = Something that can be beautiful and tuneful.

Racing cars should not necessarily be noisy, but they should sound nice...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think we need an important distinction here:
Noise = Something that can be unpleasant and hurtful.
Sound = Something that can be beautiful and tuneful.

Racing cars should not necessarily be noisy, but they should sound nice...

Good point.

[nicanary]

Like "Oldtony" I'm not a young man, and I too find the scream of today's high-revving engines to be intrusive. Whilst watching a GP it starts to grate on me.

It was OK back in the day of DFVs - the higher the revs, the more likely it is to put SOME people off. Nice for a short while, but not 1.5 hours.

[Mike E]

I really don't understand all the fuss about switching to 1.6 litre turbo V6s. Not many people complain about the boring '80s when Mansell, Senna, Prost, Piquet etc were struggling around with 1.5 litre turbos. And some of those were dullsville straight fours as well. The BMW was a stock block, for goodness sake.

[Mike E]

Having said that, they never should have dropped those lovely V10s...

[Peter Mallett]

Don't forget those 1980's turbo's produced over 1000bhp and thus carried a frisson of danger, not to mention unreliability. And the vapour trail of unburnt fuel that followed them on qualifying laps was almost surreal. The rationale behind these engines is almost completely the opposite.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The rationale behind these engines is almost completely the opposite.

Indeed. The teams will be allowed about 4 or 5 engines per car, per season. Back in the eighties they seemed to be plonking a new engine in every time they put the car back in the garage! Something that the Cosworth engined teams could never afford to do. The new engines will be looking to achieve around 650 bhp, and they will be looking to do that with as little assistance (and perhaps in some cases, with no assistance) from the turbo as possible. The turbo will have other, more important, things to do.

The turbos of the eighties were not very efficient, they needed a lot of fuel to complete a race distance, and that was one of the reasons for their demise.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Why pander to a minority at the expense of sport?

should we be surprised considering all the other rule changes we have accepted in the name of entertainment...which is just another way of saying lowest common denominator.

thats what they do and its not like we are going to stop watching so how would they know or why would they care.

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Why continue deliberately maximising the problem when the natural fit for new F1 engines offers both technological relevance and some easing of what many would call the "noise problem?"

ill start by saying that i think the sound is important but your question is a very good one. i for one am willing to rethink my position on the 'noise problem'

F1 should be relevant or at least perceived that way. the vast majority of people (fans or not) believe that there should be either more environmental regulation or at the least want to perceive that things are moving in that direction. Fuel efficiency is the number one concern for car buyers and every brand associated with F1 highlights their positive contributions to environmental causes.

im not sure using the turbo's is pandering to the minority. BE considering not using them is not even pandering to their sponsors so that should be an indication of how far from the plot he has strayed.

[MJones94]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Prost could track test Renault's new V6 in the next two months. He knows a bit about turbo engines does that man.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102998

Renault would be the first to make their feelings known to all, if the new engines were to be banned.

Nice, I was wondering when we would first be able to hear the engines.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The turbos of the eighties were not very efficient, they needed a lot of fuel to complete a race distance, and that was one of the reasons for their demise.

Just drawing a parallel here. Group C of the same era was pretty awesome and indeed the need for teams to work fuel efficiency into the strategy made each race quite compelling.

Making fuel efficiency the driver however, because we are talking sprint races, makes the racing irrelevant.

[Clive Brown]

Why not get rid of all engine regulations, and simply specify a maximum volume of a spec. fuel with which to complete the race distance?

Just a thought....