Posts removed

[Gerard]

Just to avoid questions by our appreciated regular members, here's an explanation why I removed two threads, started by a certain Buttplug.

It's not that I have anything against freedom of speech, but I don't think the Formula One forum is the place to discuss whether a certain driver is gay or not.
That's none of our business.
The second thread I removed was about a good feeling that said Buttplug had whenever Michael Schumacher should smack the wall at Indy.
Not only is this in my opinion a very sick attitude, it also shows very little respect for a human being and is an insult to every true motorsport fan.

Deleting posts is not a policy of 10-Tenths but this poster left me no choice.

Gerard.

[TimD]

Thanks Gerard, explanation and reasoning appreciated.

And agreed with.

It's down to fair and firm moderation that this community flourishes. Of that I'm certain.

Now I think we may all be able to settle down to what promises to be a weekend of fascinating Formula One RACING.

[Valve Bounce]

Posters who come here to insult and/or post offending threads or posts should be given a warning, and if this person repeats, then she or he should be banned from this forum. After putting up with a lot of insults and offensive posts on other forums, I came here and am staying because it is free of such offensive posts.

[Ace]

I think we should put on our knees and thank God for letting us post a message in this forum before posting anything else.

Do we need big brothers to make decisions for all of us? If there is something you don’t like, just ignore it. This is the just the Internet

[Edited by Liz on 24th September 2000]

[Liz]

Nope. This is not "just the internet." This is our local where we all come to have a good time talking about motor racing, and if somebody came into my local and started saying he hoped somebody smashes up his car and that he heard the guy's brother was gay, we'd probably pitch him out too. We come here to talk racing. If you want to talk trash, there's Club Arse.

P.S. I edited out the blasphemy which we also don't need.

[Valve Bounce]

I enjoy this forum for its lack of insults and abuse. For those who love insults and abuse, therre are several forums where such behaviour is the norm. Like Liz says, this is like our local where we come to enjoy a chat with each other.

[AlteredGrizz]

Buttplugs topic on Ralf being gay had 20 replies in no time at all!

Freedom of Speech

And id like to know if Ralf was Gay , so my kids dont use him as a roll model.

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe the guys at Atlas F1 could accomodate both of you as they tend to be more liberal in what posts are welcomed there!!

[AlteredGrizz]

Nope Atlas F1 is just as bad!

[f1ciamp]

Freedom of speach does not meeen that u can say watever u want in my house and i shall ignore u. no freedom of speech meens if u want to speek rubbish then u can create your own forum and say watever u want and no one will close YOUR forum but in a forum that was not created by u, u have to respect the ruls, 10/10nth forum is one of the most profesional forums on the net, its a very plesent place to spend time and speak aout motor racing, and we shall keep it this way!

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by AlteredGrizz
Buttplugs topic on Ralf being gay had 20 replies in no time at all!

Freedom of Speech

And id like to know if Ralf was Gay , so my kids dont use him as a roll model.

Agreement with Gerard et al. Freedom of speech, sure, but there are limits. It is truly sick to say you want a driver to crash, especially in the wake of Monza. And I agree with Gerard that an F1 forum is not the place to discuss whether a driver is gay, and it's nothing to do with us.

AlteredGrizz - the rest of us don't really care if Ralf is gay - it's his life and he's an F1 driver, not an exhibition. I think the people who would rather discuss a driver's private lives should go somewhere else and leave the intelligent people to discuss F1.

[R]

Removing these topics was a good decision, which I applaud. It's the forum hosts who decides what is the norm at 10-tenths, and if anyone has a problem with that, then go somewhere else.

[JeremySmith]

Thank you Gerard....I totaly agree Liz...Mr Plug, I don't think that this is a suitable site for you to post your "thoughts" Freedom of speech is one thing, but slander is something else...

Have a good day F1 fans

[gp19]

buttplug : For me is a shock type of guy that loves to do that,(p*ss people off) Were did he get his info nobody knows .I say if you don t like it ,go to an other forum

[Tristan]

Ace and "buttplug": you are very much alone.

Oh, and with a name like "Buttplug", it is obvious that you are a raging homophobe and the kind of person I deplore. Go away. (by the way, I was just excercising my right to "free speech" then; clever, eh?)

[Dani]

That is soooooooo sick!!!! Being a NOT SO BIG FAN OF JB OR DC i still wouldn't wish them any harm!!
As 4 Ralf being gay, i think its none of our buisness. But personally i think these rumours are sick and untrue as he has had a G/F 4 a few months now!!!!
How can u wish such a thing on the sports greatest driver at the moment? It just shows how little respect u have 4 people, it is sick and uncalled 4!!!>:
Why is it so bad 4 your kids 2 use Ralf as a role model? whoever said that! Even if he was gay it should make no difference cos he doesnt make his sexuality get in to the public view!!!

[Ace]

Do not feel reassured just because you are in the majority. If you come to use your brain you will realize that there is only one leader and many followers. I'm not afraid to be alone, I'm afraid of being with many that are wrong.

I’m not defending people’s abuse or death wish. I’m defending the principal that we are old enough to deal with these issues without the help of a big brother. Why don’t we create a council where all of us have a vote in de decisions of what is acceptable and what is not?

Don’t be hypocrites, Liz and many others insult Mika and all the drivers they do not like in almost every single of their posts and get away with it. Is the rule here that you are allowed to trash all the drivers except both Schumacher? Even in your house there is a place where you **** and that is the toilet. Why this “local”, if it is so especial for all of you, would not have one?

[TimD]

A few points, Ace.

First, I have never heard Liz wish ill on any driver - any individual for that matter, even Michael Andretti!

I'm not here to defend her. There are plenty of topics on which she and I disagree utterly. But the point must be made that the posts that were removed went a long way beyond what she has ever written. I would suggest that your charge of hypocrisy is unfounded.

Second, whilst it is perfectly true, as you put it, that every house is equipped with a toilet. However, I for one choose not to hold conversations in it.

Third, it would take a very small step from the thread concerning Ralf Schumacher to make it actionable in law. Why take it that far? Especially when there are test cases that have occurred in America and Germany which make the webmaster liable for the material expressed on their site.

Fourth, ultimately, you and I have absolutely no say in what is deemed permissible on this site. Craig Antill owns this site, he regulates it, crucially he also pays for it. You and I are nothing more than guests. Welcome ones, I hope. The administrators have volunteered their time and effort to the cause of moderating these forums. Unless you have volunteered your time and your money to this site, ultimately you have very little say in how it is run.

It would be a matter of a little effort, and some small outlay for you to found your own motor sport bulletin board, where anything goes. However, I for one would be unlikely to spend a lot of time there. I do not like being insulted, I do not like seeing other people insulted. The forum that allows any behaviour swiftly degenerates. Very quickly, the people who might have something intelligent or constructive to say will be driven out, leaving the vulgar and the abusive to rule the place.

Not for me, thank you.

To be honest, I enjoy the concept of a place where an Australian student can debate their favourite sport with a retired American lecturer, a Romanian businessman, an English trainee teacher, an Austrian vet and a German chemist (to name just a tiny handful of my favourite people here) without fear of rudeness and slander.

It's what makes me stay. It's why I try to take trouble with what I want to say. It's why if I have a negative opinion about someone - I'll keep it to myself.

If that makes me a follower, so be it. But at least when I say something people take exception to, I will apologise, rather than blame them for not being able to stomach it.

[Jay]

well said Tim.

[Ace]

TimD Posted:

Oh, and despite what he's been accused of in the past, he's not QUITE as unscrupulous as Ayrton Senna was.

Being a student I could imagine that you are not old enough to be around in Senna’s time. Therefore your opinion about him does not come from knowing how the man was and a lack of taste and respect for someone who is unfortunately death. In my book that is worse than asking if Ralf is gay or not. One of the first things you learn in life is not to use other people’s behavior as reference to endorse someone else’s. You don’t need to repeat your opinion that Senna was worse than Schumacher to back up your idolatry for him.

You don’t like to be insulted or abused and you are insulting and abusing someone who is death? You do it because you are sure you can get away with it. Someone who does that is a hypocrite and a COWARD.

I’m not defending the abuse or insulting or trashing. If we don’t accept one we should not accept any. That is my point.

I have edited this post at my own discretion, despite certain peoples' willingness to be magnanimous, I cannot tolerate insults of other members on this forum.

-EERO



[Edited by EERO on 24th September 2000]

[Alan]

gp19 is right. Buttplug is the type who loves to annoy people and i'll bet he can't he can't stop laughing at the controversy he's caused. I think to that end the discussion should stop.

[Ralf's Girl]

What TimD said.

It would be a shame for a forum full of intelligent people to turn into a place to discuss which driver they would like to see involved in a major accident or a driver's personal life.

Buttplug: why not save that talk for people of your own low IQ level?

[TimD]

I remain true to my word.

Ace, if anything I said in my opinion you bring attention to over Ayrton Senna da Silva offends you, then I duly apologise. I would not be a stumbling block to anyone.

I shall not repeat the statement, nor shall attempt to justify it.

I would however like to clear up one misapprehension on your part.

I am not the student I referred to. I am 32 years of age, and have followed F1 avidly from the age of five. I was fortunate enough to witness Ayrton Senna competing on eight separate occasions, from his British Formula Ford 2000 campaign onward. My opinion is therefore not coloured by purely secondhand information, although it is perhaps affected a little by the passage of time.

It is nothing that I would not have said to Ayrton Senna to his face - a man for whom I genuinely wept in 1994.

As to your insult - I will not rise to that. All I will say is to any moderator reading, if you feel it appropriate, I would be happy for Ace's comment to STAND.

I will not enter into a riposte.

[TimD]

In an effort to inject a little levity to the debate, I will add that I learned a lesson about slagging drivers behind their backs at Silverstone many years ago.

I was cheerfully relating to a competitor some incident involving Win Percy (British Touring Car Championship driver) and precisely what I thought of it, not realising that Win Percy was actually standing RIGHT BEHIND ME listening to every word.

What can I say - he was very gracious about it.

[Liz]

Ace is quite right that if insults and aspersions are wrong for one, they are wrong for all.

We are here to discuss motor rcaing and nothing else. If you want to call names, do it by email please.

P.S. Saying Senna was unscrupulous (on the track) is merely stating a fact; it is not calling names. And although Piquet insulted Senna by not only saying he was gay but offering to provide witnesses, Senna never dignified his comments with a response and good for him.