Pay Drivers

[MichaelC]

It seems that our sport is about to become basically head-to-head racing to see which motor manufacturer can build the quickest car. Fairly soon, we'll have seven and a half teams (Jordan almost count, Prost won't) which are works backed.
The other teams will have to find some form of at least semi-works backing to be able to compete.

I think it goes without saying that a works team will expect nothing short of outright victory, so where does this leave the pay-drivers??

Diniz came in on the back of sponsorship, was found to actually have some ability, and got a salaried drive.
Pedro DL Rosa looks destined for BAR after showing some talent too. I think there is also some potential for Gene, but I worry for the future careers of people such as Mazzacane, Tora Takagi, Ricardo Rosset, etc. who were only really in because someone coughed up a large wadge of cash and bought them a seat.

The best teams will want only the best drivers, and that is not usually a pay-driver. If you're good, your talent will be noticed, the Pedros being a case in point, but does anyone else agree that the future is certainly not bright or Orange for some of the less talented, but well-off drivers - if you are rich but poor, you need to get in quick or your chance will be gone??

[marcus]

good points but i still feel that some teams or manufacturers will want to take the money of pay drivers instaed of spending their own...it always amazes me though how some very good drivers carnt get sponsorship money out of a company and half talented drivers can get millions out of the same company..totally bemusing to me but then thats life i guess..but possibly there will be room for paid drivers in f1 at least for the next few years anyway

[KC]

Formula 1 has changed from a wealthy man's sport to a wealthy corporate sport. Pay drivers have been around as long as there has been racing, whether it was a guy with more money than skill racing his own motor cars or heavily sponsored drivers ousting better racers for the seat on a team. Soon all that will be left will be the mega-corps and even they finally realize that F1 has become too expensive.

[Minardi fan]

Pedro Diniz is still a pay driver.

Katayama was also a pay driver, unbelievably.

[Green_man4421]

No actually you are wrong about all pay drivers. Not all pay Drivers are rich. Aoem have tallent that is spotted by companies in their own countries that pay for them to have drives in higher levels so their talent gets them the payed drive like Alex Yoong His goverment backs him.

[MichaelC]

Pedro Diniz is not technically a pay driver any more. He still brings the Parmalat sponsorship to whichever team he his with, but Sauber are paying him a salary as well. It's this first year he's actually been paid to drive...

[enemy-ace]

F1 is supposed to be the top echelon of the sport,so as far as i am concerned pay drivers should be out. If they bring a sponsor because of their talent then that is fine but they should also bring an impressive CV. We have drivers like Schumacher who are displaying their talents against the Diniz variety. Can you honestly see Diniz or one of his kind one day proving himself worthy enhough to drive alongside a Schumacher.
Pay Drivers waste good Race Space.

[Peter Mallett]

Comparing Diniz to (say) Inoue, he stands head and shoulders above his peers. He may never be a championship contender but he can drive competitively. He's not far away from Salo on pace. His current employment is based on ability not money. Mazzacane is pretty poor quality, and closer to Enemy Ace's opinion.

However, without these pay drivers there would be fewer teams. Jordan did it and pulled itself away from the bottom of the grid. Minardi are trying to do the same.

If we stop pay drivers or drivers of a lesser quality than Mickey-the Shoe we'd only have one car on the circuit. Then who would M-t-S blame when he spun off!!!

[Minardi fan]

Indeed, Mazzacane is only at Minardi because of his South American sponsorship.

Gene on the other hand is paid a nice little salary by Minardi - they know they've got a very good driver in their hands.

As for Diniz, I didn't use to think much of him. However, he's proved he can run with the big boys - he did after all beat Jean Alesi last season, and he outqualified Damon several times at Arrows.

However, I still believe Salo to be a far better driver.

[Murph]

enemy-ace

Niki Lauda didn't do too bad for a guy who started out as a "pay to play" driver with March in '72 and BRM in '73. His drives in the latter part of 1973 caught Enzo's eye and the rest is, as the say,..... "history".

take care all,

Murph

[enemy-ace]

Granted Diniz has become a better driver since he first came into F1, but on the other hand i've also become a much better walker since i learned to put one foot ahead of the other. I just can't help but feel for some really talented drivers who are not being allowed to shine because somebody with a little more money or political clout are paying their way in. I for one welcome the advent of the major manufacturers in F1, lets just hope that they hire the best drivers and not the CEO's son. If this means the end of Minardi, so be it. F1 is meant for the best, and if they can't compete then they well and truly should be taken by the bigger dog.
As for Lauda, well there is always going to be an exception to the rule. A funny thing i Read about Lauda recently. After the Belgian GP of '77 Lauda and David Purley were seen in heated discussion. Afterwards Purley was asked of it's content. Purley had noted that Lauda had complained that Purley had held him up and caused him to spin. Purley responded, "I told him to bugger off! I said that if an ACE in a works Ferrari couldn't pass a Rabbit in a Lec without spinning, he wasn't a bloody ACE in my book..."

Finally -- You know if i had the money i would be in F1 too.
Mind you that would take a lot of money!

[Green_man4421]

F1 is just an extension of society the more money you have the more likely you are to get a good drive. FAce it you goto have a fair bit of money to get into F1 in the first place. Some one with no money will never be able to get a good KART and training. The more money you have the more of a chance you have to make it.

[Super Tourer]

I have always thought that pay drivers were a futile exercise. What's the point of spending loads of cash and thousand's of man hours, trying to find another tenth of a second in the car, if you have a monkey behind the wheel who never finds the limit of the car.

You need good drivers to find the limits and make progress with the car. To have somebody pay you to drive round and round going nowhere seems pointless to me.

In an ideal world as F1 is supposed to be the best, then we should have the 22(24 soon) best drivers in the cars, no pay drivers.

On the point about talented drivers not having the cash. With drivers like Diniz, he will have been financed from the first time he sat in any time of race car, effectively by daddy, as daddy is Parmalat's biggest customer in Brazil!
This means that drivers like him can always move up the ranks and buy themselves in.

British companies traditionally don't get heavily involved in sponsorship and would never back a young driver from Karts to F1, so most British F1 drivers have to cobble together a career up the ladder in a hand to mouth type way.

[Peter Mallett]

Perhaps we are missing something here. In the UK you get a race licence as a novice. You then complete 11 races and if you've done so without accidents or endorsements from the officials you progress to a national licence. If you then wish to progress you need to finish six races with the same conditions, and you can apply for an International C licence.

With that licence you can race in everything except Formula 1, F3000, GT and 24 hour touring car races. (I am willing to be corrected here).

To compete in the higher formulae except F1 you need an International B licence, which is obtained by finishing in the top three in six qualifying events in a season.
So to get to a level where you can obtain a Superlicence (for F1) you need to have achieved a high standard.
That's how it is in the UK and I expect it’s the same elsewhere. Therefore, drivers like Mazzacane, Diniz, Inoue etc. have already achieved a high standard in order to obtain their Superlicences. They are probably much better than their counterparts in lesser formulae. Remember teams don't think just about the money, but it is a major factor.
Back in 1978 we had Bruno Giaccomelli who raced a McLaren M23, run by a small British team (BS Fabrications?). There was a Brazilian driver (name escapes) who ran his own team in a Lotus 78. Incidentally that car was bought by Desire Wilson and ran in the national Aurora AFX F1 championship.
At the same time Nelson Piquet took his Parmalat money to Brabham.

So, whilst we may denigrate these "pay" drivers, we should not forget the contribution made by their predecessors. We should also not forget that they have achieved in lesser formulae, which makes them better than the norm. Its just that their abilities don't stack up against Mickey-the-shoe, Hakkinen or the others.

[TimD]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
There was a Brazilian driver (name escapes) who ran his own team in a Lotus 78

Hector Rebaque by any chance, Peter?

As to the gist of your post, I agree absolutely. As I mentioned the last time the subject of "journeymen" came up, Lavaggi is doing very nicely indeed in the Sports car world cup Ferrari this year, against some good opposition.

He may pale in comparison with Michael Schumacher, but he's a heck of a lot better than I'll ever be!

Wasn't Alfonso de Portago a "pay" driver?

[Liz]

I agree with Pete - if the guy has met all the qualifications for the license, he is obviously up to the requisite standard and it should not matter if he got his money by sleeping with the boss or by inheriting it from his parents - all the team wants to know is 'SHOW ME THE MONEY' not show me where you got it. In Champ Cars Tony Kanaan and Roberto Moreno earned their rides dime by dime, and so did Memo Gidley (as much as he has gotten so far). That doesn't make them better pilotes or worse ones than Michael Andretti who bought his drives either with Dad's money or influence from the time he first set foot in a car.

You know what they say: when the green flag drops ...

[Minardi fan]

Even Tuero is apparently doing nicely for himself racing in South Africa...

[Super Tourer]

When did Dinz finish in the top three in six qualifying events in a season?

I've never seen him regularly at the sharp end of anything.

Race historians, sharpen your pencils......