Alonso at Indy (to Miss Monaco)...

[littleman]

Montoya has never won the F1 World Championship for Drivers (Alonso twice) and probably never will now.

[Paradise City]

Alonso shouldn't have got it because he doesn't need it. I'd hate to see some of the less well-resourced rookies slip through the net due to missing out on the top rookie award.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by littleman

Montoya has never won the F1 World Championship for Drivers (Alonso twice) and probably never will now.

Probably nothin'.... What makes you think he'd even be wanting to go back or that any team would want him? 'Gettin' a little long in the tooth (and we won't mention his size...)

'Ain't happening.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Alonso shouldn't have got it because he doesn't need it. I'd hate to see some of the less well-resourced rookies slip through the net due to missing out on the top rookie award.

What's that to do with his earning it? Socialism sucks.

[AdrianM]

Let's also not forget that Jones had two seasons of Indy lights running on ovals (including Indy) and had five previous races in the IndyCar series. He may be a rookie to the 500 but he's certainly no oval or indy car rookie like Alonso.

[jimclark]

+1 Veddy Gooood.

[Paradise City]

Oh, I stand by my post without a doubt. Top drivers often slip down the memory hole due to bad politics and a lack of cash. Alonso didn't need the prize, he's not the clear-cut winner, plenty of others to choose from, give it to someone who could use it.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Oh, I stand by my post without a doubt. Top drivers often slip down the memory hole due to bad politics and a lack of cash. Alonso didn't need the prize, he's not the clear-cut winner, plenty of others to choose from, give it to someone who could use it.

Absolutely stand by it. 'Your perogative.

I don't think Stroll "needs" so many cars in his collection. I can "use" a Ferrari. He should give one to me, right?

That system, again, sucks. I need to strive and earn one (not be "given" one by someone who already has) because I can "use" it....

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Absolutely stand by it. 'Your perogative.

I don't think Stroll "needs" so many cars in his collection. I can "use" a Ferrari. He should give one to me, right?

What's this jibberish about?

Originally Posted by jimclark

That system, again, sucks. I need to strive and earn one (not be "given" one by someone who already has) because I can "use" it....

The award is via subjective opinion, dude. So your blather about "socialism" doesn't cut it.

If you like, I'd award the prize to the top finishing rookie and cut out the "star struck" element that has probably seen Alonso clinch it.

[gert]

Originally Posted by littleman

Montoya has never won the F1 World Championship for Drivers (Alonso twice) and probably never will now.

Why is that relevant?

[jimclark]

'Can't make it much clearer. You just don't wish to accept my opinion. Oh well. I can live with that.

Regarding "If you like, I'd award the prize to the top finishing rookie and cut out "star struck" element that has probably seen Alonso clinch it.", I wouldn't like. But that's okay too. The "would" ( in "I'd") is the key. That's your opinion and, again that's fine. You, however, are not in the position so to do.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jimclark

'Can't make it much clearer. You just don't wish to accept my opinion. Oh well. I can live with that.

Regarding "If you like, I'd award the prize to the top finishing rookie and cut out "star struck" element that has probably seen Alonso clinch it.", I wouldn't like. But that's okay too. The "would" ( in "I'd") is the key. That's your opinion and, again that's fine. You, however, are not in the position so to do.

Do we really need all this insecure waffle about "it's your opinion". Obviously it's my opinion, this shouldn't need to be stated.

So you're not in favour of a meritocracy? OK, then.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by gert

Why is that relevant?

Is that to say the WC isn't part of the trip crown???

(Hint for "littleman" )

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

So you're not in favour of a meritocracy? OK, then.

Unbelievable.

Your original statement: "Alonso shouldn't have got it because he doesn't need it."

What happened to your "meritocracy"? I thought my posts were quite clear regarding my feeling about merit as opposed to gift, nay, charity. Alonso earned it, he's been awarded it.
So it should be taken away from him and given to someone else as per your "give it to someone who could use it."

I believe you're 180 degrees out of sync with yourself.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Though it's unofficial but just to clarify in case of any confusion, the Triple Crown of Motorsport is:

the Indianapolis 500
the 24 Hours of Le Mans
the Monaco Grand Prix

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Though it's unofficial but just to clarify in case of any confusion, the Triple Crown of Motorsport is:

the Indianapolis 500
the 24 Hours of Le Mans
the Monaco Grand Prix

Indeed, and to add to that, the closest active driver is Montoya, with wins in Monaco and Indy. Although not 'close', the only other realistic ones right now are Alonso, who has stated his intentions, and possibly Hulk as he has the Le Mans win, but neither of the other two.

Villeneuve never podiumed at Monaco and only managed second at Le Mans.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Unbelievable.

Your original statement: "Alonso shouldn't have got it because he doesn't need it."

What happened to your "meritocracy"? I thought my posts were quite clear regarding my feeling about merit as opposed to gift. Alonso earned it, he's been awarded it.
So it should be taken away from him and given to someone else as per your "give it to someone who could use it."

I believe you're 180 degrees out of sync with yourself.

You rejected my meritocratic reform to the rookie prize, lol. My remarks have been entirely meritocratic all down the line. Yours is some sort of traditionalist ethic which can interfere with merit.

If the rookie prize however is secured by subjective opinion in a year were the rookie field has nothing to chose from then, yeah, I am in favour of giving it to the guy who needs it in order to foster talent within the series. If the cost of that means you hallucinate "socialism", then I'll just have take that one on the chin. I'll stick with my view, that if a way can be found to pack the series with the most driver talent as is possible, then we should do it.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

If you like, I'd award the prize to the top finishing rookie and cut out the "star struck" element that has probably seen Alonso clinch it.

That's the whole point though. The top rookie prize isn't about who needs the money the most or who finished the top rookie in the race. What you think it should be or not be is irrelevant to where it's gone this year.

It's based on the driver's skill, sportsmanship, accessibility/conduct during the month and finally finishing position.

At the end of the day Alonso was much more of a rookie than Jones with the level of experience he had with the cars and ovals.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

That's the whole point though. The top rookie prize isn't about who needs the money the most or who finished the top rookie in the race. What you think it should be or not be is irrelevant to where it's gone this year.

It's based on the driver's skill, sportsmanship, accessibility/conduct during the month and finally finishing position.

At the end of the day Alonso was much more of a rookie than Jones with the level of experience he had with the cars and ovals.

If there's nothing to chose between them then the prize should go to who needs it the most. It's as good a clincher-criteria as any.

And there was nothing. Alonso got in plenty of practice, he had top machinery and could tap the expertise of six top cars, he's race-fit at the highest level for many years and doesn't struggle for resources. He also wasn't tested in the last twenty or so laps -- when the race really gets hot and courtesy goes out the window.

That sounds like I'm denigrating Alonso. His is a great achievement and he's a worthy enough recipient but there's not alot to choose between the top rookies this year and in that event, when there's parity between them after you've worked through all the various factors, I'd give it to the guy who needs it the most.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

If there's nothing to chose between them then the prize should go to who needs it the most. It's as good a clincher-criteria as any.

And there was nothing. Alonso got in plenty of practice, he had top machinery and could tap the expertise of six top cars, he's race-fit at the highest level for many years and doesn't struggle for resources. He also wasn't tested in the last twenty or so laps -- when the race really gets hot and courtesy goes out the window.

That sounds like I'm denigrating Alonso. His is a great achievement and he's a worthy enough recipient but there's not alot to choose between the top rookies this year and in that event, when there's parity between them after you've worked through all the various factors, I'd give it to the guy who needs it the most.

We've got it. Enough with this silly discussion.

Everything should be you're way so there's an easy solution to this debate.

Get yourself appointed Czar of the Rookie Of The Year and your will shall be done.

I'm not going to hold my breath.....

There. Settled.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Though it's unofficial but just to clarify in case of any confusion, the Triple Crown of Motorsport is:

the Indianapolis 500
the 24 Hours of Le Mans
the Monaco Grand Prix

Ya' think?

Aaahhh the gap 'twixt races leaves such time for nice healthy "debate", 'Good time to lighten up. Don't you agree?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by jimclark

We've got it. Enough with this silly discussion.

Everything should be you're way so there's an easy solution to this debate.

Get yourself appointed Czar of the Rookie Of The Year and your will shall be done.

I'm not going to hold my breath.....

There. Settled.

What's all this waffle? I'm stating my views which is normal on forums. This triggers a panic attack in you for whatever reason.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Ya' think?

It's not what I think but what has been accepted as The Triple Crown, even though it is unofficial.

Originally Posted by jimclark

Aaahhh the gap 'twixt races leaves such time for nice healthy "debate", 'Good time to lighten up. Don't you agree?

I'm all for nice healthy debate and lightening things up, 'twixt races and during. As the Moderator for the IndyCar forum of TenTenths, that's something I heartily encourage and condone. I think we are all agreed.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Is that to say the WC isn't part of the trip crown???

(Hint for "littleman" )

Originally Posted by jimclark

Ya' think?

Aaahhh the gap 'twixt races leaves such time for nice healthy "debate", 'Good time to lighten up. Don't you agree?

I think the clarification needed to be made....

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's not what I think but what has been accepted as The Triple Crown, even though it is unofficial.

Incidentally, in an interview on BT Sport, when asked about the Triple Crown, Alonso referred to having won the F1 championship, so I wonder if he considers it to be the F1 championship, the Indy 500 and Le Mans. I don't think anyone would debate that winning the championship is harder than only Monaco, but as you say, traditionally, the Triple Crown is viewed as being these big three races. Of course, the only man to have won the Triple Crown was F1 champion anyway.