Arrows

Kid Prozac · 15 Feb 2002, 13:29 (Ref:216455)

just heard that arrows is probablygoing to be sued by Jos Verstappen. just had a thought, if arrows spent less money on court cases, lost count how many in the last few years, they might actually get round to spending it on more worthwhile things, maybe an F1 car? after all thats what theyre there for. isnt it?

laudaman · 15 Feb 2002, 14:02 (Ref:216490)

To be fair, they have had one of the fastest cars in a straight line for the past couple of years. But then again that's no good when it's like a snail at Monaco, just ask DC.

Coach44 · 15 Feb 2002, 14:30 (Ref:216520)

Quote:

Originally posted by laudaman
To be fair, they have had one of the fastest cars in a straight line for the past couple of years. But then again that's no good when it's like a snail at Monaco, just ask DC.

They only appeared fast because they were racing with low fuel.

av8rirl · 15 Feb 2002, 14:34 (Ref:216524)

Coach: In fairness they did have good straight line speed thanks to designer Eghbal Hamidy (spelling). I just hope he can make the Jordan go quickly around corners as well as on the straight bits...

Total-F1 · 15 Feb 2002, 19:22 (Ref:216639)

I think Arrows relied too much on Eghbal - Jordan have a well-rounded (shall we say) tech department - the Jordan will probably still be very slippy, but I don't see why it should be lacking in grip like the Arrows was.

Speedworx · 15 Feb 2002, 19:33 (Ref:216650)

Arrows could be on the way out.

Don K · 15 Feb 2002, 20:18 (Ref:216695)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kid Prozac
just heard that arrows is probablygoing to be sued by Jos Verstappen. just had a thought, if arrows spent less money on court cases, lost count how many in the last few years, they might actually get round to spending it on more worthwhile things, maybe an F1 car? after all thats what theyre there for. isnt it?

I think it will take some time before Rothengatter can win that lawsuit (unless he can actually show the testdriver-contract that Ferrari had offered Jos last december ...
Anyway, I can't see how Arrows will end up paying much more than the salary they would have payed him this year.

But why didn't they just sign Frentzen without breaking Jos' contract? In that case, They would be paying Jos for testing the Arrows. And if Jos would sign a contract at another team, or would refuse to do the testing, Arrows could stop paying his salary.

steve nielsen · 15 Feb 2002, 20:30 (Ref:216705)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K
I think it will take some time before Rothengatter can win that lawsuit (unless he can actually show the testdriver-contract that Ferrari had offered Jos last december ...
Anyway, I can't see how Arrows will end up paying much more than the salary they would have payed him this year.

But why didn't they just sign Frentzen without breaking Jos' contract? In that case, They would be paying Jos for testing the Arrows. And if Jos would sign a contract at another team, or would refuse to do the testing, Arrows could stop paying his salary.

A- the Ferrari offer has nothing to do with the lawsuit against Arrows.

B- Jos had a contract to drive all 17 F1 races for Arrows.

C- Huub and Jos indeed want much more than Jos's salary(they want about 2,5 million €)and before going to court Huub is going to send the bill to Arrows.

steve nielsen · 15 Feb 2002, 20:52 (Ref:216722)

also fun to visit: www.walkinshaw.sucks.nl

as you can see Tom is'nt making too many friends in The Netherlands

, but after a while I was glad Jos is'nt driving for that idiot anymore!

, now he can find himself a real F1 team

Mr V · 15 Feb 2002, 21:02 (Ref:216734)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
[Bas you can see Tom is'nt making too many friends in The Netherlands

, but after a while I was glad Jos is'nt driving for that idiot anymore!

, now he can find himself a real F1 team

[/B]

and who may that be then? unless pollock buys prost before the season starts, i can't see anyone picking jos up, either now, or in the future!

steve nielsen · 15 Feb 2002, 22:15 (Ref:216830)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v

and who may that be then? unless pollock buys prost before the season starts, i can't see anyone picking jos up, either now, or in the future!

Ferrari offered him a testcontract in december(after they had already hired Burti), and the team that come to mind are Sauber,Toyota and Jordan(Massa,Mcnish and Sato beeing rookies)

Mr V · 15 Feb 2002, 22:19 (Ref:216831)

of the three...a very distant possibility (maybe the only one to save jos's f1 career) would be at the expense of mcnish.

BD · 16 Feb 2002, 01:04 (Ref:216898)

Quote:

Originally posted by Coach44

They only appeared fast because they were racing with low fuel.

Nope. Their high straight line speed was due to their relatively low amount of drag. At the expense of downforce though. The car was designed that way, the idea being that there are only 2 high downforce circuits. Makes sense when you have a weak engine. Unfortunately they werent allowed to use their aerodynamic, downforce band-aids.
My guess is that this year they have focussed on getting more downforce at the expense of a little more drag.

Don K · 16 Feb 2002, 09:32 (Ref:216998)

Quote:

Originally posted by steve nielsen
B- Jos had a contract to drive all 17 F1 races for Arrows.

Do you mean he claims he has the right to drive those races in an Arrows car? And now he cannot use that right, Arrows should pay him back?
Huub can only win that if he can prove that Jos is a pay driver, and has already payed more than 17 * EUR 160.000 for the privilege to drive this years F1 races ...

Quote:

A- the Ferrari offer has nothing to do with the lawsuit against Arrows.

C- Huub and Jos indeed want much more than Jos's salary(they want about 2,5 million €)and before going to court Huub is going to send the bill to Arrows.

So basically you're saying: If Jos wouldn't have had his Arrows contract, then during the last half year he would have negotiated a contract with another team, which would have been worth much more than the contract Ferrari offered him 2 months ago.
Well, if they want to win a law suit on that ground, I'm afraid they actualy have to produce some solid evidence of such an offer, preferably an unsigned contract. Or at least some evidence that the teams that were talking to them, asked them to destroy the unsigned contracts.

KA · 16 Feb 2002, 10:05 (Ref:217008)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v
of the three...a very distant possibility (maybe the only one to save jos's f1 career) would be at the expense of mcnish.

I really don't see Toyota dumping McNish unless he's comprehensively blown away by Salo- which I don't think will happen (or at least I really hope not...). If they'd wanted to put anyone else in the car, the opportunity has been there all along, and they haven't taken it- Personally I think McNish is in the car because Toyota want him there, not- as some seem to believe- because they couldn't get anyone else....

steve nielsen · 16 Feb 2002, 10:36 (Ref:217017)

Quote:

Originally posted by Don K

Do you mean he claims he has the right to drive those races in an Arrows car? And now he cannot use that right, Arrows should pay him back?
Huub can only win that if he can prove that Jos is a pay driver, and has already payed more than 17 * EUR 160.000 for the privilege to drive this years F1 races ...

No, Jos had a contract for all 17 races without any buy out clauses, Arrows should pay him the salary they had agreed on + the further income Jos will miss now(merchandise).

So basically you're saying: If Jos wouldn't have had his Arrows contract, then during the last half year he would have negotiated a contract with another team, which would have been worth much more than the contract Ferrari offered him 2 months ago.
Well, if they want to win a law suit on that ground, I'm afraid they actualy have to produce some solid evidence of such an offer, preferably an unsigned contract. Or at least some evidence that the teams that were talking to them, asked them to destroy the unsigned contracts.

If Arrows had not offered Jos the contract in June I'm sure Jos would be in Melbourne on the 3rd of march driving for Toyota,Sauber or Minardi 100%, now TW kept him "off the market" too long, before signing Webber Paul Stoddart openly admitted to wanting Jos at Minardi, but he could'nt wait anymore.

Mr V · 16 Feb 2002, 10:43 (Ref:217021)

Quote:

Originally posted by KA

I really don't see Toyota dumping McNish unless he's comprehensively blown away by Salo- which I don't think will happen (or at least I really hope not...). If they'd wanted to put anyone else in the car, the opportunity has been there all along, and they haven't taken it- Personally I think McNish is in the car because Toyota want him there, not- as some seem to believe- because they couldn't get anyone else....

i agrre with you KA, i was just stating that, of the 3 that steve had earlier quoted.sauber,jordan and toyota, i thought that mcnish was the most likely to be replaced (of the 3).not that i thought he would be replaced!

steve nielsen · 16 Feb 2002, 12:38 (Ref:217088)

Quote:

Originally posted by mr v

i agrre with you KA, i was just stating that, of the 3 that steve had earlier quoted.sauber,jordan and toyota, i thought that mcnish was the most likely to be replaced (of the 3).not that i thought he would be replaced!

they did'nt even want Mcnish in the first place, they first offered the job to Wurz, but Wurz waited to long for Mclaren(thinking he would be the one replacing Hakkinen)

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