ParityParityParityParity - Page 3

Gaz170 · 30 Jul 2004, 04:14 (Ref:1051577)

Quote:

Originally posted by lcfp2297
You guys just don't understand the word parity...it does not actually mean a 50:50 race win...race results are meaningless...it means a 50:50 potential to win races...

Anything can influence a race win (spins, lengthy pit stops etc...)

More than one choice of engine & front suspension....

What's the ratio of wins between a BA & a "Blueprint VY" ?

retro · 30 Jul 2004, 04:57 (Ref:1051586)

Quote:

Originally posted by retro
No link so I am quoting.............

*The parity situation is a complicated and scientiffic formula taken over an average of 3 rounds where the top 10 Fords and Holdens are monitored over 20 lap blocks.
The current gap between Ford and Holden determined by the parity police is .0044 sec just underneath the trigger point for adjustment. Parity will not come under review again until after Bathurst which follows the Oran Park and Sandown meetings.* Gordon Lomas 29/7/04 Couriermail.

Quote:

Originally posted by 00 XR8
Cheers for that info retro.

Does anyone know if they still use that fastest 10 time from the fastest 10 drivers for each make system anymore? If I knew exactly what the system was and had the lap charts, I would seriously calculate the results in Excel. Anyone?

00 xr8 does this give you enough info for a spread sheet?

mountainstar · 30 Jul 2004, 06:09 (Ref:1051631)

How much ******* parity do people want before the results of races are contrived? You could give every team an identical holden built by one manufacturer with every bit on the car exactly the same and still the top teams will be the best. Cause it still takes money and personel, and not how much of each you have but how well you manage them too.

Bigguy · 30 Jul 2004, 06:16 (Ref:1051636)

As someone who has absolutely and categorically zero interest in either "brand", I really believe people should get off this parity horse!

If you look back through Natsoft, you will see a pretty even mix of red and blue in qualifying and race results.

Clearly the best teams rise to the top, and any apparent imbalance at the moment just reflects team capabilities.

Time for people to open both eyes I think.

lcfp2297 · 30 Jul 2004, 06:51 (Ref:1051657)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gaz170
More than one choice of engine & front suspension....

What's the ratio of wins between a BA & a "Blueprint VY" ?

Only two VX's that I see on the grid...that's the only way the teams can run a strut front end...

If you want to look at it that way, Ford teams also have the choice of two different aero packages

00 XR8 · 30 Jul 2004, 07:23 (Ref:1051688)

Quote:

Originally posted by retro
00 xr8 does this give you enough info for a spread sheet?

I would give it a go but I do not no where I can get the lap times from. Natsoft just have the fastest lap from each competitor..............

Oh wait, Race Rime has individual lap times!

Game on

lcfp2297 · 30 Jul 2004, 07:34 (Ref:1051695)

But which 20 lap block in each race did they use...

...and is it the same 20 lap block for each of the 20 cars?

And that raises another question, who are the 10 fastest Holdens and Fords...are they the first 10 of each make to cross the line, or are they the 10 fastest over a/the block of 20 laps...

What happens if a car pits during the 20 lap block...

I think it is a lot more complicated than the above text suggests...

00 XR8 · 30 Jul 2004, 07:39 (Ref:1051701)

Yeah well ok, I will use the 10 fastest times from the 10 fastest of each make then. It may not be 100% what they do, but I still think the results will be of interest (well, of interest to me anyway

)

deeks6 · 30 Jul 2004, 09:11 (Ref:1051751)

According to the Oxford dictionary:

Parity (pa-ra-tee): A condition to be invoked when Holden V8 Supercars seem slower than Ford V8 Supercars, especially immediately before Bathurst (refer 1980's, 1990's etc).

v8man · 30 Jul 2004, 11:22 (Ref:1051868)

Quote:

Originally posted by lcfp2297
Only two VX's that I see on the grid...that's the only way the teams can run a strut front end...

If you want to look at it that way, Ford teams also have the choice of two different aero packages

but holden have the choice of 2 engines as well and looking at the points table 3 of the top 4 cars have the non blueprint engine in the car. I think this is the point being made in the original post

Onlooker · 30 Jul 2004, 11:28 (Ref:1051871)

So at the moment we have GRM and CPR in breach of the rules and both items that would add to the performance of the car and one Ford found in breach but no advantage proven so is this the type of "doing a better job" that is/has been required

Aussie Mitch · 2 Aug 2004, 14:56 (Ref:1054181)

i hate the notion of parity.

set out a list of technical regulations. get the manufacturers to build a car according to those regulations. one manufacturer will build a better car, and it will deserve to win. if the other manufacturer does not like this situation, it should pull its finger out and build a better car in the first place.

i hate parity.

lcfp2297 · 2 Aug 2004, 23:24 (Ref:1054510)

Quote:

Originally posted by v8man
but holden have the choice of 2 engines as well and looking at the points table 3 of the top 4 cars have the non blueprint engine in the car. I think this is the point being made in the original post

It is correct that Holden have the choice of two engines in the current VY...but arguably there is no advantage if we look at VY wins in isolation (as has been attempted above in others parity arguements)...

I was just pointing out the incorrect assumption in the original post that Holden have a choice of front suspension...They have as much choice as Ford do over aero packages...Remember that once a team upgrades to VY, BA they can only go back under Force Majuer...

Cheers

dennisonthenet · 7 Aug 2004, 07:46 (Ref:1059090)

I know nothing about wings or lips like some people seem to but there dose seam to be Commodors with alot more going for them in the handeling and breaking areas. So maybe there is something amiss.

Chappelli · 10 Aug 2004, 20:13 (Ref:1062509)

A couple of years ago I was talking to a guy who was a huge Holden fan, you know the type; buys a new HSV every year, reads the HSV newsletter etc etc etc. We started talking V8 Supercars, more accuratley why Holden was so dominant. The answer that he came up with was an interesting one, he had read in his HSV newsletter an interview with somebody fairly high in the Holden tree who you'd think would regurgitate the company line, his answer was that Holden's dominance was down to Ford's lack of driving talent, that Ford's drivers were owners, sons etc. Interesting now that the roles have reveresed somewhat we're now being told it's engineering.

But here's the big call, I think it's in AVESCO's vested interest to have one manufacturer in a dominant role. Think about it, the vast majority of people attending races, buying Merch and watching the odd race here or there on TV are not trainspotters, AVESCO need the populas audience to be able to follow one (never two, always one) thing, whether that be a team, or a brand.

Basketball hit its peak when the Chicago Bulls dominated, Boxing was the order of the day when everybody could cheer on Tyson, ladies tennis had Anna Kournikova and Formula One has Ferrari are we all naive enough to think the marketing department hasn't figured this out, ladies and gentleman, it ain't about the show, its about the brand (and when the ratings start going down, your freshen up the brand... which is why we're seeing first Kimi Raikonnen and now Jnson Button being groomed as the next populas hook.)

lcfp2297 · 10 Aug 2004, 22:18 (Ref:1062606)

Chappelli...

I followed your arguement until you threw in Anna Kournikova...what was she ever successful at?

1200Datto27 · 10 Aug 2004, 22:36 (Ref:1062613)

She got a lot of pre-pubescent boys interested in womans tennis.

smithers · 10 Aug 2004, 22:58 (Ref:1062626)

Quote:

Originally posted by 1200Datto27
She got a lot of pre-pubescent boys interested in womans tennis.

And a few post pubescent ones as well....

DKGandBH · 11 Aug 2004, 00:40 (Ref:1062671)

Brand dominance works only for a while, then people want a change.

As long as there is at least 1 "other" brand racing with the leading brand, changes will be minimal.

When 1 brand dominates too long, there will be changes, not so much as to even up the pack, but to make things different; where everyone has to start again. Sure the same teams may still be on top (as in Ferrari with the new engine rules etc...), but they will have to try harder.

David

aj_308 · 11 Aug 2004, 03:05 (Ref:1062712)

parity: last ditch effort by failing teams to iron out engineering deficiencies.

Gaz170 · 11 Aug 2004, 03:29 (Ref:1062717)

Just a question about your argument Chappelli, what's in it for Ford?
If Holden is chosen to be the dominant one, why does Ford bother supporting the category? It can't be good marketing for them to always be assured of losing.

lcfp2297 · 11 Aug 2004, 04:10 (Ref:1062733)

Gaz, you should know better than to use logic on this forum

Chappelli · 11 Aug 2004, 06:58 (Ref:1062784)

The answer; You've got too much to lose from not being part of the show. If you can't do the old "win on sunday, sell on monday" you've got to go with the "be like mike" and buy a few personalities (Lowndes & Ingall.. Both pretty handy drivers, but both very very marketable personalities).

My partner like Lowndes because "he's always smiley" the guy in the office next to mine likes HRT because "Fords suck". A very small sample, but I think a pretty indicative look at the vast majority of V8 'fans'.

Yes, you still need entertainment, you still need a fight for the championship, but you need to make the 'fan' feel 'safe' in there choice of favorite team (and yes the average 'fan' is that naive, next round listen to commentry, ground announcer or TV will do. Listen closely, who are they talking to? Are they talking to the trainspotter, or average joe punter who's wondering what a flat spot is.

Bigguy · 11 Aug 2004, 13:18 (Ref:1063049)

Isn't a flat spot what you do before moving?

lcfp2297 · 11 Aug 2004, 22:29 (Ref:1063406)

Quote:

Originally posted by Chappelli
Yes, you still need entertainment, you still need a fight for the championship, but you need to make the 'fan' feel 'safe' in there choice of favorite team (and yes the average 'fan' is that naive, next round listen to commentry, ground announcer or TV will do. Listen closely, who are they talking to? Are they talking to the trainspotter, or average joe punter who's wondering what a flat spot is.

I would go further...the average consumer is that naive...you can argue about brand loyalty for most consumer markets...a blind test usually gets an objective view...unfortunately a blind test can be quite dangerous when it comes to automobiles