[WEC] Ginetta LMP1

[GingerPixel]

I think the point is more that the part that repeatedly failed was an off the shelf item from a Jag road car, not specifically which Jag road car.

[Akrapovic]

Yeah, who cares what car it's from. Jaguar probably use the same parts in different cars anyway, so it's still probably correct. Also Jag will still make parts for old cars, so it could be a part for the 2006 model.

Either way, it doesn't really matter. They used a road car part for a race car that's not up to the task.

[gert]

Endurance-Info is now wondering if that single Ginetta will show up in Japan at all.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/fuj...netta-absente/

[DinkLv]

Originally Posted by gert

Endurance-Info is now wondering if that single Ginetta will show up in Japan at all.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/fuj...netta-absente/

Yeah, they aren't going to Fuji. No confidence in the project at all when they keep making promises they can't afford.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yeah, who cares what car it's from. Jaguar probably use the same parts in different cars anyway, so it's still probably correct. Also Jag will still make parts for old cars, so it could be a part for the 2006 model.

Either way, it doesn't really matter. They used a road car part for a race car that's not up to the task.

But it means you can hit the local parts store, or a pick-a-part for the your supplies. Think of the cost savings

[S griffin]

This could be the beginning of the end. Shame, it was good while it lasted

[andrewn7]

Originally Posted by S griffin

This could be the beginning of the end. Shame, it was good while it lasted

I think you may mean the end of the end! The beginning of the end was plain to see at Spa back in May!

Very sad if true, nonetheless

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But it means you can hit the local parts store, or a pick-a-part for the your supplies. Think of the cost savings

You know, if a Jag axel costs $500, and a racing one costs $5000, then you need to break 10 of them before you start losing money. You're right, those cost savings are phenomenal

[gert]

Originally Posted by andrewn7

I think you may mean the end of the end! The beginning of the end was plain to see at Spa back in May!

Very sad if true, nonetheless

What was the beginning of the end? The LMP3 fiasco when everybody started to dump their Ginetta's and bought Ligiers instead?

Before that: Ginetta-Zytek and the Ginetta GT car seemed relative successful?
(Even though the Ginetta-Zytek relationship also ended in tears)


Funny note:
right now, entirely coincidental, the song I'm playing is The Beginning And The End (Anathema)
(this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLgVGH0clEU)

[KA]

If they don't make Fuji, then that certainly looks like game over for the LMP1 project- and probably for any other Ginetta-related involvement in anything beyond their core one-make and GT4 stuff for the foreseeable future

[TF110]

I hope they are at Fuji. If not then I agree that is most likely all she wrote on the car.

[bentley speed 8]

Originally Posted by TF110

I hope they are at Fuji. If not then I agree that is most likely all she wrote on the car.

Well it's over:
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...m-6h-fuji.html

[Aysedasi]

Not a lot of fanfare there then for something we all expected..... I too am guessing that it's the end of the end of the Ginetta LMP1.... Very disappointing. There is something rather Nissan GT-R LM about it, although perhaps not quite that embarrassing...

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not a lot of fanfare there then for something we all expected..... I too am guessing that it's the end of the end of the Ginetta LMP1.... Very disappointing. There is something rather Nissan GT-R LM about it, although perhaps not quite that embarrassing...

I'd argue at least the Nissan competed, it was terrible and did not meet the requirements but it was there. Now it was announced with much more fanfare and having rewatched the Amazon LM24 show for that year I had forgotten how much Darren wanted us all to believe he was a genius for proposing a backwards car. This effort felt doomed from the start and I think most, if not all, of us here were hoping even from the beginning it would go and be at least a decent alternative. Now it just feels like everyone involved had something to hide and couldn't meet expectations. Sadly I think the goodwill most have felt toward the project has melted away

[Aysedasi]

I fear you're right. Although I think there are parallels - they shared one less than mediocre appearance at Le Mans.....

[Akrapovic]

Both were bigged up a lot as well. Remember when the Ginetta was going to be running Toyota lap times? And they were hoping to sell 10, and 2 teams were confirmed?

On the very first page of this thread, a good few people were saying this doesn't turn into another Ginetta LMP3 mess. It's looking increasingly like that, unfortunately.

[GT6]

Well i feel sorry that we never good to see a quality product from Ginetta, a real shame.

[rdjones]

To be fair how much of this mess has been down to Ginetta and how much has been down to Manor/CEFC/TRSM?

We don't yet know the reason why they have pulled the plug on Fuji and remember they could still appear later in the season. I am not righting them of yet.

[Aysedasi]

I'm with those who think this is it Rob. There is no point them coming back unless they have the effort sorted with two fully funded cars. Anything less would be disastrous.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm with those who think this is it Rob. There is no point them coming back unless they have the effort sorted with two fully funded cars. Anything less would be disastrous.

And there's a question of if they'll find customers for them. Car is unfinished, with a LM bodykit, still hasn't run with the new engine. There are options from BR1 that can be used that are more proven. And we don't know how long these rules will be in play for.

Unfortunately, this may be it.

[Mike E]

Why would anyone considering LMP1 not just get hold of an ORECA-Gibson? A proven evolution of the dominant LMP2 chassis with an apparently bulletproof LMP1 version of Gibson's bulletproof LMP2 engine.

Ginetta-AER? Come on.

[Akrapovic]

The ORECA may not be available to other customers as it was a Rebellion build. But certainly a BR1 - Gibson seems like a good bet.

[Columbus]

I’m with Aysedasi in this. Only a fully funded, throughly developed, factory supported, two car, 2019-20 campaign can salvage this project now. Ginetta still has time to pull in high-value sponsorship for next season and could use the remaining rounds of this season to properly develop the AER-powered G60-LT-P1. With so much cash and reputation already invested in LMP1, they can’t afford not to. If they quit LMP1 like they did GT3 and LMP3 their credibility as a constructor will be gone for good.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Columbus

I’m with Aysedasi in this. Only a fully funded, throughly developed, factory supported, two car, 2019-20 campaign can salvage this project now. Ginetta still has time to pull in high-value sponsorship for next season and could use the remaining rounds of this season to properly develop the AER-powered G60-LT-P1. With so much cash and reputation already invested in LMP1, they can’t afford not to. If they quit LMP1 like they did GT3 and LMP3 their credibility as a constructor will be gone for good.

They should have stuck to LMP 3 and made it work. Given that over 150 LMP3 cars have been sold world wide, they have missed out on a lucrative market and the chance to build credibility as a prototype constructor. They tried to run a marathon before they could walk.

Pity Lola and Reynard were not still around to make LMP3 cars, too, but that's a different conversation!

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by Columbus

I’m with Aysedasi in this. Only a fully funded, throughly developed, factory supported, two car, 2019-20 campaign can salvage this project now. Ginetta still has time to pull in high-value sponsorship for next season and could use the remaining rounds of this season to properly develop the AER-powered G60-LT-P1. With so much cash and reputation already invested in LMP1, they can’t afford not to. If they quit LMP1 like they did GT3 and LMP3 their credibility as a constructor will be gone for good.

No. Just no. This is the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Ginetta's investment in LMP1 is a sunk cost, a cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered. Considering such sunk costs as a rationale to proceed is bad business practice — you should look only at prospective costs when making a decision otherwise you're likely to throw good money after bad.

Looking to the future, it's hard to see the business case for continuing. Even if the G60-LT-P1is a good design (not a given), it’s well behind the ORECA and BR1 in development. The future of current generation privateer LMP1 beyond 2020/2021 is extremely uncertain. Who's suppose to step up and fund this two-car program that you and Aysedasi speak of? (Manor/CEFC/TRSM/ were only in for one car — Ginetta was funding the second car.)