Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Jan 2019, 16:21 (Ref:3874164)   #51
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
yeah, good point. that desire for ferrari would have put him on the market around the time schumacher went there, and i can’t imagine either of them being happy about having the other as a teammate...
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 5 Jan 2019, 22:17 (Ref:3874199)   #52
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Well would Schumi’s stock have been as high had Senna beaten him to the title in 94 and 95?
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 6 Jan 2019, 23:21 (Ref:3874367)   #53
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Senna would not have won '94. Too much ground to make up. By mid season Schuey's points advantage would be more than the 20 pts difference it was after the first 3 rounds!
However by 2/3 season FW16 would have at least given Senna the chance to win regularly albeit with Schu in 2nd or 3rd...
95,96,97 Williams were a cut above though...
I think he would have retired end of '97.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2019, 12:27 (Ref:3874447)   #54
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,030
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Senna would not have won '94. Too much ground to make up. By mid season Schuey's points advantage would be more than the 20 pts difference it was after the first 3 rounds!
Im not so sure.... bear in mind after Monaco Schu had a 33 point buffer over Hill, after France a 37 point buffer..... and Schumacher only won the title (by one point) by virtue of his famous Adelaide chop.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2019, 12:46 (Ref:3874454)   #55
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I reckon once Senna had sorted out that Williams, Schumi would have had a fight on his hands
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2019, 22:19 (Ref:3874585)   #56
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
Im not so sure.... bear in mind after Monaco Schu had a 33 point buffer over Hill, after France a 37 point buffer..... and Schumacher only won the title (by one point) by virtue of his famous Adelaide chop.
Yes but Schu missed 2 races (and I think DQ from another?) which helped Hill enormously.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jan 2019, 22:22 (Ref:3874586)   #57
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I reckon once Senna had sorted out that Williams, Schumi would have had a fight on his hands
Senna would have beaten him to wins with the developed FW16 but Schu would be 2nd or 3rd every race so it would be very tough to claw back the deficit.

Call me cynical but I don't think for a second Schu/Benetton would have been banned for 2 races and dq from another if Ayrton hadn't been killed!
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jan 2019, 00:11 (Ref:3874598)   #58
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Well we’ll never know shall we? Maybe Schumi wouldn’t have given them an excuse to dq him at Silverstone by not passing Senna on the parade lap and not get the subsequent two race suspension, although he might still have been dqed at Spa, as that was a clear rule.
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 8 Jan 2019, 04:42 (Ref:3874650)   #59
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,030
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Yes but Schu missed 2 races (and I think DQ from another?) which helped Hill enormously.
.... and would have helped Senna equally.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 8 Jan 2019, 23:03 (Ref:3874826)   #60
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
.... and would have helped Senna equally.
As i said in the my reply To Sgriffin, Benetton wouldn't have missed the races if Senna had lived. There would be no need to spice it up.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Jan 2019, 02:47 (Ref:3874860)   #61
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,030
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
As i said in the my reply To Sgriffin, Benetton wouldn't have missed the races if Senna had lived. There would be no need to spice it up.
Fair comment.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 9 Jan 2019, 22:24 (Ref:3875073)   #62
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
Fair comment.
Of course there's no way in the world there was anything artificial about that season post Imola!!
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2019, 06:15 (Ref:3875123)   #63
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,030
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Of course there's no way in the world there was anything artificial about that season post Imola!!
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2019, 18:16 (Ref:3875323)   #64
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,911
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunterer View Post
Senna would have beaten him to wins with the developed FW16 but Schu would be 2nd or 3rd every race so it would be very tough to claw back the deficit.

Call me cynical but I don't think for a second Schu/Benetton would have been banned for 2 races and dq from another if Ayrton hadn't been killed!
Given the influence that Senna had, and how long it took for the FIA to investigate the Benetton electronics, I personally think it's realistic that Benetton would've been found out earlier, and then Senna would've had the advantage.

It's all obviously ifs and buts and we'll never know the answer, but it's an interesting thought experiment. I personally think Senna would've taken the title after the TC was found earlier after more verbal protests from Senna.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Jan 2019, 23:43 (Ref:3875384)   #65
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Given the influence that Senna had, and how long it took for the FIA to investigate the Benetton electronics, I personally think it's realistic that Benetton would've been found out earlier, and then Senna would've had the advantage.

It's all obviously ifs and buts and we'll never know the answer, but it's an interesting thought experiment. I personally think Senna would've taken the title after the TC was found earlier after more verbal protests from Senna.
Also very valid points, yes.
Ayrton would not have let it lie!!
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2019, 09:14 (Ref:3875442)   #66
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Senna always suspected Benetton were cheating. So he probably would alerted the FIA earlier
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 12 Jan 2019, 23:33 (Ref:3875807)   #67
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Here's another one.

What would have happened had Warwick' 1984 Renault been as competitive as Prost's 82 and 83 ones?

My memory tells me that the 84 car was arguably 2nd best to Mclaren in terms of performance early in '84 but then fell away badly as the season wore on.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Jan 2019, 10:57 (Ref:3875882)   #68
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Well one reason he turned down Williams for 85 was because he felt the Renault just needed to sort out it's reliability as he had come close to winning one or two in 84. Remember he almost won first time out in Brazil. Meanwhile the Williams-Honda was terrible and only won in Dallas because the handling disadvantage was negated there, as was the fact Rosberg was driving it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 15 Jan 2019, 23:35 (Ref:3876382)   #69
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Yes FW09 was a bit of a carthorse if i remember?
Some of those '84 and '85 races were crazy with unreliability or cars running out of fuel!

I often wonder how the front of the field might have looked in 1985 or '86 had some drivers either not been killed or badly injured earlier in the decade and I don't just mean drivers already in F1.
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2019, 15:17 (Ref:3876517)   #70
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Certainly the grid wasn't restricted in terms of numbers then, although there were a few teams that didn't even make it onto the grid
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2019, 23:45 (Ref:3876852)   #71
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,697
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
How great would it have been to have Senna, Prost, Bellof, Villeneuve, Thackwell, Pryce, Brise, Piquet, Mansell etc all competing!!
chunterer is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2019, 09:36 (Ref:3876925)   #72
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
We shall never know shall we? Would some drivers have been as successful with so many great drivers on the grid?
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2019, 11:39 (Ref:3876942)   #73
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,030
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Also, had the ones lost not needed to be replaced we would have no doubt not even seen some drivers that came to the grid as a result, directly or indirectly.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2019, 12:04 (Ref:3876949)   #74
bella
Race Official
Veteran
 
bella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
France
Posts: 16,760
bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
We shall never know shall we?
you don’t need to say that (for about the third time), the exact premise of this thread is wondering what might have happened.

i mean, the modern equivalent of having those guys missing would be being without 2/3 of the people touted as serious talents on today’s grid. as it is we’re only down one in bianchi. it’d be like not having hulkenberg, ocon, hamilton...
bella is offline  
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2019, 12:37 (Ref:3876958)   #75
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 39,527
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I suspect that Hamilton would have got there, bearing in mind the influence he had behind him....
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
96 days...
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slip sliding away... jonbryant Marshals Forum 12 29 Sep 2008 19:23
Slip, sliding away at Barcelona Super Tourer Formula One 22 18 Jan 2005 13:13
IRL Team Xtreme closes doors KC IRL Indycar Series 9 15 Jan 2002 00:25
4 Doors in DTM & New Format racer69 Touring Car Racing 4 16 Aug 2001 01:32
Slip Sliding Away.. Airhead Formula One 26 7 Aug 2001 07:16


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.