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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3742367)   #91
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Drive tests the TCR Audi

If Supercars cease to exist, this is the obvious replacement, not GT3.
Im agreeing with you thats its a logical replacment

But a massive backwards step
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:18 (Ref:3742368)   #92
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But a forward step from no national tin-top series at all.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:20 (Ref:3742369)   #93
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But a forward step from no national tin-top series at all.
agreed, But i woudl expect will see a massive reduction in interest in a national tin top series, from the current levels

I would expect around 10 seconds a lap slower at bathurst, i think we would kiss goodbye to almost all government funding
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:26 (Ref:3742370)   #94
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I would say that was far from certain. A gun marketing campaign could sell that series easily particularly with the stars in the series. I'd love to see demographic figures in particular ages of hardcore fans over the past two decades. I get the feeling the series has waned in popularity with the millennials, I think selling of the TCR formula wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine, the cars are pretty relatable with that generation.
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Old 16 Jun 2017, 23:46 (Ref:3742378)   #95
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I would say that was far from certain. A gun marketing campaign could sell that series easily particularly with the stars in the series. I'd love to see demographic figures in particular ages of hardcore fans over the past two decades. I get the feeling the series has waned in popularity with the millennials, I think selling of the TCR formula wouldn't be as hard as you might imagine, the cars are pretty relatable with that generation.
I would be impressed if you could impress the millennials, My observation is that generally they are not interested in cars, merely just a way to get them from A-B

time will tell

60 km/h slower than Conrod

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Old 17 Jun 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3742385)   #96
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What are peoples reasons why TCR would be a more suitable replacement than GT3 for example?

I can't see the Australian market warming to them at all.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 00:22 (Ref:3742387)   #97
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What are peoples reasons why TCR would be a more suitable replacement than GT3 for example?

I can't see the Australian market warming to them at all.
I would guess because they are a touring car, as opposed to a sports car and they also have manufacturer support. Not a lot to offer in that category.

However they target themselves as a entry level touring car series, more of an improved production series, thus , IMO, they would be a significant backwards step
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 02:19 (Ref:3742402)   #98
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60 km/h slower than Conrod
Not sure why that matters?

TCR cars would be quicker across the top and through corners. Is that a detraction to VASC cars?

Sports Sedans are quicker than V8 Supercars down Conrod and that doesnt make the category irrelevant
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 02:50 (Ref:3742405)   #99
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Oldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridOldtony should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Now that this discussion has arrived in a suitable place it becomes worth participating.

A number of concepts for the future of motor racing in Australia confront us, and I really don't think there is a single class magic bullet.

The current V8s provide close, bumping, tyre rubbing racing which has great appeal for many. For instance whole field in Darwin covered by about a second in lap time. While the TV package and production is great the FTA exposure has all but disappeared.
For some of us it has passed its use by date because:
a) The cars are no longer relevant,
b) It is over-exposed because it presents a whole program which is basically the one thing- V8s, Dunlop series, Utes, Touring car masters, Porches.
c) No manufacturer involvement
d) Has little "glamour factor" in the eyes of the millennials.
e) It has become too costly for the teams and RECs have become too restrictive like F1

I personally can't Supertourers, Production touring, TCR, or GT3 being the answer on their own.
TCR, would get manufacturer involvement, have some relevance for millennials, and cost less but down on performance.
GT3, has some following, has a glamour factor and some manufacturer involvement.
Production touring may or may not get manufacturer suport but lacks glamour and down on performance.
Supertourers ????????

I think the answer is to come up with a mix that includes non tin top classes, and that the mix should be varied across meetings.

Probably the most important ingredient could be a proper open wheeler formula, probably the proposed F5000, that is identifiable as Australian.

With no domestic industry does Gen 3 make any sense as a re-skinning exercise?

By the way if we wanted REAL market relevance we would be racing crew cab 4wd Utes or soft road SUVs!

Last edited by Oldtony; 17 Jun 2017 at 03:02. Reason: Add 4wd/SUV
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 03:05 (Ref:3742409)   #100
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TCR cars would be quicker across the top and through corners.
TCR cars would not be quicker than a Supercar through corners

They do provide good racing though

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For instance whole field in Darwin covered by about a second in lap time
Thats part of the problem to some.

The cars have been designed and engineered to produce these sorts of results, but the result is that nobody can pass and this brings in gimmicks like gumball tyres, mandatory pitstops in short races and so on...
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 10:36 (Ref:3742497)   #101
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What are peoples reasons why TCR would be a more suitable replacement than GT3 for example?

I can't see the Australian market warming to them at all.
I don't know about you but Golf GTIs, Civic Type Rs, Alfa Romeo Giulietta QVs, Subaru WRX, Focus ST... these are cars that people actually drive, including the low-performance versions too.

GT4 is in the middle, somewhat more impractical and expensive base cars (Cayman, Mustang GT etc), but they are also production based and don't perform like V8 Supercars. GT3 vehicles are obviously exotica of little relevance to Joe Bloggs.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 10:40 (Ref:3742499)   #102
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I would expect around 10 seconds a lap slower at bathurst, i think we would kiss goodbye to almost all government funding
Why should heavily sponsored racing cars be propped up by government funding? That's crazy.

Permanent circuits should be the core, and they should be more than viable from miscellaneous circuit income (track days, driving training) and REASONABLE touring car sanction fees!
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3742500)   #103
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60 km/h slower than Conrod
I agree that Super Tourers were louder, not farty turbos, and more spectacular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLq9Oi3_MNg

BUT I'd sure like you to drive this Civic Type R TCR around Macau and tell me "It's too slow!!" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upEWevjpROk

If Supercars could create a production-based GT4-style regulation for six-cylinder turbo performance 4-door sedans (BMW M3, C43 AMG, Infiniti Q50 Black S, Alfa Giulia QV) those would be bigger, stylish, "desirable", faster cars...

BUT that would mean Ford and Holden would be OUT because they simply do not sell such a car anymore, would that be ok in your opinion? [Sadly Mustang has the wrong number of doors for a saloon formula! While the superb performance Cadillacs are not sold in Australia] Take Holden and Ford out, to make room and justification (Mercedes don't want to race with risk of being beaten by lesser brands like Holden) to bring in the prestige marques with performance sedans that have $100k+ starting prices?

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 17 Jun 2017 at 10:50.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 16:06 (Ref:3742857)   #104
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Sadly Mustang has the wrong number of doors for a saloon formula!
Sadly indeed.

When the rules for V8SC were written. 4 door bodies were mandated. along with other rules, to virtually ensure the only eligible models were Commodore and Falcon; the VU Monaro was 8 or so years away, and Ford Australia was done with making 2 door cars. That was well over 20 years ago now, and the whole 2 door vs 4 door thing should be forgotten. Prior to V8SC, Australian Touring Cars from Improved production through Group C and Group A was full of 2 door cars, and I don't EVER remember complaints about 2 door cars through those years. Minis, Mustangs, Monaros, Falcon Coupes, Alfetta GTVs, Capris, Escorts, Corollas, Chargers, 2 door Pacers, Jags, XU1 and A9X Toranas, Sierras, BMWs, Starions, and the Nissan DR30, HR31 and R32 Skylines. The one that probably sailed closest to the wind in terms of interior space was the Group C Mazda RX7.

The R32 GT-R didn't cause ructions because it was a 2 door car - it was because it was good, and won races and championships. Perhaps if Group A rules had been amended to 2WD only. the story might have been different.

If 2 door Touring Cars were perfectly OK for 30 years of Touring Cars prior to the blinkered V8SC era, now that the cars that caused those rules are all but gone, then 2 door cars should be welcomed back - so long as they are genuine 4/5 seaters when in factory trim.

Last edited by RedZedMikey; 17 Jun 2017 at 16:11.
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Old 17 Jun 2017, 21:46 (Ref:3743485)   #105
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Why should heavily sponsored racing cars be propped up by government funding? That's crazy.

Permanent circuits should be the core, and they should be more than viable from miscellaneous circuit income (track days, driving training) and REASONABLE touring car sanction fees!
Ok, not a discussion i really want to get into, as its another topic, but the consequence is a massive reduction in people attending. so for instance if Clipsal (adelaide 500) is dropped then you have just dropped the equivalent crowd of aprrox the next 4 events combined (TAS, PI, WA & Winton). Thats a massive reduction and thats before we even bring in the move to TCR which was the question.
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