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Old 13 Jun 2017, 17:47 (Ref:3740926)   #76
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
Search on the Auto Sport forums, because that's where I was told it was found.

Posts 134-136:

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/20...ns-2017/page-3
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there are rumours that Porsche will leave WEC after 2017.
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perhaps a entry in Formula E.

Source is: Motorsport aktuell (without Formula E, just the Porsche pull out rumour).
What is Motorport Aktuell? This Swiss site or is it a paper magazine too? I can't find anything here:

http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/me...t-7996244.html

And some navigation links redirects to AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/motorsport-aktuell/

and the Le Mans section there: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/2...s-1860856.html

had nothing but normal race hype and previews.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 17:51 (Ref:3740927)   #77
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If this alleged new is bad, the only thing I can think of is Porsche or maybe Toyota cutting back or withdrawing their LMP1 programs, or a major shift in the WEC's schedule for next year. It's clear that no changes will be happening to LMP2 unless the ACO are convinced to make it. And I don't think that it's got anything to do GTE BOP.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:05 (Ref:3740932)   #78
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What is Motorport Aktuell? This Swiss site or is it a paper magazine too? I can't find anything here:

http://www.motorsport-aktuell.com/me...t-7996244.html

And some navigation links redirects to AMuS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/motorsport-aktuell/

and the Le Mans section there: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/2...s-1860856.html

had nothing but normal race hype and previews.
Motorsport Aktuell (short: MSA) is a weekly paper magazine - so things not being on their website don't mean that they aren't in the print edition.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:12 (Ref:3740933)   #79
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It doesn't make it confirmed, but it also doesn't make it not confirmed. This is how the Audi rumours started.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:15 (Ref:3740935)   #80
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No, the Audi rumours started with an actual article by Marcus Schurig. You know, one that actually exists for people to read rather than the figment of other people's imagination.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3740940)   #81
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No, the Audi rumours started with an actual article by Marcus Schurig. You know, one that actually exists for people to read rather than the figment of other people's imagination.
So not on internet = not real?
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3740941)   #82
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Yeah, those blasted magazines, being a figment of imagination! I hate when magazines just don't exist, especially when they don't exist as printed paper and stuff!

If someone says it's in there, it's probably in there. Doesn't make it true, but I don't doubt the article exists. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours didn't start with Marcus - that was just the first really good article on it. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours were going since, oh I don't know, about 2003.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:28 (Ref:3740942)   #83
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I've been told that the report is probably in their print magazine. Unfortunately, I don't think any place in the US carries it, certainly not any place locally. I'm glad to get Racecar Engineering at my local book store.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:30 (Ref:3740943)   #84
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Yeah, those blasted magazines, being a figment of imagination! I hate when magazines just don't exist, especially when they don't exist as printed paper and stuff!

If someone says it's in there, it's probably in there. Doesn't make it true, but I don't doubt the article exists. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours didn't start with Marcus - that was just the first really good article on it. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours were going since, oh I don't know, about 2003.
Audi Sport to F1 rumors have existed since after they won Le Mans in 2000. Remember that everyone and their brother in LMP900 and LMGTP aside from Audi defected to F1 or other series after 1999.

People try and make the F1 connection by Auto Union (predecessor to present day Audi, and where Audi got their four rings logo from) running in Grand Prix racing (predecessor to modern day F1) prior to World War II.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:38 (Ref:3740946)   #85
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Yeah, those blasted magazines, being a figment of imagination! I hate when magazines just don't exist, especially when they don't exist as printed paper and stuff!

If someone says it's in there, it's probably in there. Doesn't make it true, but I don't doubt the article exists. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours didn't start with Marcus - that was just the first really good article on it. The Audi leaving Le Mans rumours were going since, oh I don't know, about 2003.
Those rumors back in 2003 probably weren't saying Audi will leave in 2016, so it is not like they can be counted all as the same, one, "the" rumor.

The timing here is what I don't get since these decisions at the company level are made at the end of the year. I think the Marcus Schurig article also came just a few weeks or couple of months before the actual pullout news came. (Also, wasn't the initial suggestion that Audi would leave after 2017).

Yes, there's maybe now a lot of media at the paddock right now but for the same reason unfounded rumor would spread easily.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:42 (Ref:3740947)   #86
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Those rumors back in 2003 probably weren't saying Audi will leave in 2016, so it is not like they can be counted all as the same, one, "the" rumor.

The timing here is what I don't get since these decisions at the company level are made at the end of the year. I think the Marcus Schurig article also came just a few weeks or couple of months before the actual pullout news came. (Also, wasn't the initial suggestion that Audi would leave after 2017).

Yes, there's maybe now a lot of media at the paddock right now but for the same reason unfounded rumor would spread easily.
Not sure if we already discussed this on here, but Porsche seems to be getting sucked into Dieselgate right now...
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 18:50 (Ref:3740950)   #87
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Not sure if we already discussed this on here, but Porsche seems to be getting sucked into Dieselgate right now...
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/por...tions-surface/

But they're all at it. It's just a matter of degree - http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...missions-fraud
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 19:00 (Ref:3740953)   #88
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Not sure if we already discussed this on here, but Porsche seems to be getting sucked into Dieselgate right now...
I don't see much connection here yet since there is only an investigation, and it is not like this is the first time Porsche has been connected to the dieselgate. It was already back in 2015.

A newspaper did tests, Porsche denied them, hence an official investigation.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/por...tions-surface/

Edit: same link as Akrapovic posted.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 19:02 (Ref:3740955)   #89
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So not on internet = not real?
One post on some random internet forum = not real.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 19:12 (Ref:3740960)   #90
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Dagys was referring to the new diesel class for the WEC, trying to improve the road tech through racing but apparently they, like Top Gear, used touring car drivers to test.

Towsend Bell's twitter feed found the first slow zone

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Old 13 Jun 2017, 19:14 (Ref:3740963)   #91
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And this coincides with, in my opinion at least, the current LMP1 regs and their financial cost growing stale among the teams. When you have Toyota and Porsche agreeing in principal to limit chassis development, that should've maybe been a smoke signal that something was up.

This doesn't guarantee that either one will leave after this year. But it's a little too convenient in my view that we have critics pointing out that the LMP1 regs as they exist right now are unsustainable from a cost standpoint and with no one else wanting to come in right now, with dieselgate happening. IMO, it's just an excuse for VAG to cut losses and wait for the new rules cycle, which is the approach everyone else is taking. Especially when you consider that dieselgate hasn't hurt VAG's sales of diesel cars outside of NA (which were never high there anyways and all the fixed cars have quickly sold out), and that most VAG divisions are still making huge profits.

I still think it's more that politics within Volkswagen Group and between VAG and the ACO/FIA are at play, and it's probably more sensible to let the current ACO LMP1 regs run their course and wait for 2020. There's probably more to this whole story than what Audi Sport and others have shared publicly, and that's stuff that Hindy has also talked about with the Audi Sport pull out.
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Old 13 Jun 2017, 23:19 (Ref:3741034)   #92
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There is supposed to be an announcement this week. I don't know if it's good or bad, but the WEC's twitter has been positive about a surprise. That could just be the AJ Foyt rumor, but I hope there's more.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 03:06 (Ref:3741064)   #93
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Only positive thing that I've seen the ACO mention is whoever the race starter is supposed to be. Dagys' tweet is leaning towards bad news.

I think that LMP2 stuff and maybe GTE BOP can be ruled out. That leaves LMP1 or the 2018 schedule, or maybe even the 2020 rules package.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 04:46 (Ref:3741076)   #94
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Only positive thing that I've seen the ACO mention is whoever the race starter is supposed to be. Dagys' tweet is leaning towards bad news.

I think that LMP2 stuff and maybe GTE BOP can be ruled out. That leaves LMP1 or the 2018 schedule, or maybe even the 2020 rules package.
Or he's looking for clicks on twitter? He threw out the bait, now people wanna know what it is, even if it might turn out to be another 'false alarm'.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 05:56 (Ref:3741082)   #95
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I wouldn't doubt that it's clickbait/self-promotion for SC365 (and before you dump on just him, Racer Magazine has been known to print sensational headlines for otherwise fairly mundane stories), though he's better connected than most of us on this board, and after seeing various programs go away, never materialize, or fail to deliver, nothing would surprise me.

Not to mention that Hindy has been talking of Porsche leaving again recently (a rumor that won't go away since Audi left), and Auto Motor und Sport's Motorsport Akutell print mag has hinted of that possibility.

Only thing I can say, if it's bad news, is what it's not, which is LMP2 stuff so far hasn't materialized, nor has anything outlandish (at least yet) in terms of GT BOP.

That IMO leaves us with something to do with LMP1 (possibly privateer related), or the 2018 schedule. Or, for all I know, GTE Am might be phased out/merged with GTE Pro, since GTE Am numbers have dropped big time this season, while LMP2 and GTE Pro numbers have gone up.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 07:11 (Ref:3741097)   #96
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Hindy has made a few passing comments that he expects Porsche will leave soon. Also says Audi will be back for Peugeot. I like Hindy but I think he's wide of the mark on those.
Porsche is most likely to pull out 2019 or 2020, 2018 or 2017 is too early.
Source: internal ...
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 08:01 (Ref:3741110)   #97
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SC365 saying that Porsche are denying pull out rumors until at least end of 2018:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/p...1-exit-rumors/

However, the MSA article was written by the same guy who predicted the Audi Sport pull out a few months before it happened and chronicled Nissan's troubles in LMP1.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3741112)   #98
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To me it reads like the program is on probation and the board won't stand for another season of uncompetitiveness. So if the team can win a few races and show that they have found ways to drastically improve the chassis for next year, they'll get the go ahead. If not, the plug will be pulled.

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Old 14 Jun 2017, 08:36 (Ref:3741118)   #99
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Difference is that Porsche were reasonably competitive last year, and only errors and bad luck in the first half the season kept the #1 Porsche from being a serious contender for the drivers' title. Granted, Audi dominated races at Nurburgring, Mexico, COTA and Fuji to come up short either due to freak problems, pit strategy, or Porsche getting luck with timing of full course yellows.

This year, Toyota are bearing the fruits of them stepping up their budget and commitment that was made in 2015 when it was clear they needed a new car, and fast. The 919 is now almost 4 years old as far as it's tub design, and it's not like the 956/962 or Audi R8 or Pescarolo C60/01 days where a chassis can be competitive for years.

But I have my suspicions that Audi continuing in the WEC was contingent on winning Le Mans last year, or having a shot at the manufacturers' title. If the LM win or the manufacturers' championship happened or looked likely, they might have stayed. But when LM didn't happen and it looked like the manufacturers' championship wasn't going to happen, it made it easy to pull the plug and cut their losses.

IMO, things with the rules package right now at LM and the WEC seem to be getting stale for those in charge of motorsports at Volkswagen Group, especially in terms of ROI on a dollar vs benefits basis.
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Old 14 Jun 2017, 09:27 (Ref:3741123)   #100
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Basically for a short overall picture in LMP1, the teams and the ACO milked the current regs for all they were worth. And owing to the cyclical and volitle nature of road racing, things peaked for the current regs in 2015, and the bubble has burst and things will slide downhill until the new rules take effect. It's just simply that things in road racing, more than other motorsports, go in bursts and cycles where things peak, but most of the time things level out and stagnate in between.
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