How to fix F1?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

All those lovely F1 cars!!

It was great, and even the rubbish ones still gave plenty of decent drivers their big chance in F1.

There is no doubt at all that the cost and the blatant manufacturer bias in F1 these days is why we don't have anymore teams.

It's effectively a closed shop.

[greentrumpet]

Originally Posted by Adam43

That’s in the rules really. Yes, bigger is often heavier, but it’s a standard part so it’s less what they decide to do. Neither are as light as they could be.

Do we know the difference?

It’s immaterial though. Unless the rules change to increase the overall weight of the car is. ???

Re: the change to 18" wheels. Unsprung weight is still quite important though, isn't it?

[chillibowl]

It would cost millions of dollars to transports tires, parts, and staff around...not a good look imo if they burn that much carbon not to go racing.

A few more teams would be nice though and i am curious to see what a new team could do under the budget cap (Mosley's prefered plan).

For me, i would just want teams that can compete across the whole weekend. To me that would be healthy competition.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by greentrumpet

Re: the change to 18" wheels. Unsprung weight is still quite important though, isn't it?

The circuits are so smooth and the springing so hard, that the only thing that will suffer with unsprung weight is kerb hopping where the tyre compression will be considerably reduced, and then everyone is in the same boat as the wheels and tyres are spec.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Looking at this year didn’t know it needed fixing!
As for idea of increasing teams. How does that work with money as at least three teams are being kept going with very rich benefactors
Just more golden sperm drivers!

If the cost was reduced the golden children would not be necessary or welcome.
When there were 40 cars trying to get on a 26 car grid, the sponsors were still present.

[john ruston]

That’s what used to be
You could run a F1 team with 200 people not a thousand
Get rid of electronics , radio and all those back up computor boffins and then you stand a chance
Not going to happen!

[Adam43]

When there were 40 cars trying to get on the grid quite a lot of them were crap. Really really crap.

And the gap from the front to 10th, to 20th was a lot lot bigger than it is now.

Some aspects don’t need fixing.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wnut

If the cost was reduced the golden children would not be necessary or welcome.
When there were 40 cars trying to get on a 26 car grid, the sponsors were still present.

It was an entirely different world and until 1968 no apparent sponsorship was on cars according to Google. Certainly no wide spread direct electronic viewing was possible and that is what they pay for these days.

I agree with the reduction of electronic assistance at the track but I think most here would know that.

It will be interesting to see how much kerbs get used with the new wheels because the tyre compliance will definitely add a new dimension to it.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

When there were 40 cars trying to get on a 26 car grid, the sponsors were still present.

so about the sponsors....Philip Morris and Ferrari took off the Mission Winnow logos in France and presumably for all the European races.

im not a fan of smoking, but if Heineken can be a very visible league and event sponsor under the guise of zero alcohol beer products (does anyone think that is what they are actually trying to promote?), then they might as well let the cig companies back in to promote whatever 'healthy' alternative products they are obliged to pretend to care about?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

so about the sponsors....Philip Morris and Ferrari took off the Mission Winnow logos in France and presumably for all the European races.

im not a fan of smoking, but if Heineken can be a very visible league and event sponsor under the guise of zero alcohol beer products (does anyone think that is what they are actually trying to promote?), then they might as well let the cig companies back in to promote whatever 'healthy' alternative products they are obliged to pretend to care about?

But there is a distinct difference between tobacco and alcohol. It is now known that there is a direct link between tobacco and cancer, but I am unaware that there is that link with alcohol.

However, I fully realise that alcohol can do irreparable and even fatal damage to humans when abused, but in moderation it can do no harm, and I say that as a teetotaller. I also appreciate that those under the influence can reek havoc both on the roads and socially, but I don't think that advertising necessarily has an effect in this side of alcohol.

[Adam43]

And then there is Red Bull. No health warnings about how horrible that tastes.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

And then there is Red Bull. No health warnings about how horrible that tastes.

Or the smell; sickly sweet.

[S griffin]

I’ve only tasted it once. I seem to remember it tasting like strawberry

[bathurst77]

Why cant Phillip Morris, or BAT, WD HO wills etc release a pencil or toothpick, called "benson and hedges/marlboro etc toothpicks" with identical packaging and writing as the cigarettes.

Then they could plaster a car with MARLBORO in big writing and "toothpicks" in small letters under it.
We arent advertising smokes, we are advertising toothpicks.

[Adam43]

Because that is also like cigarettes. It’s as simple as that. The reason you suggested it is the reason they can’t.

[P38 in workshop]

I don't think that allowing tobacco advertising,even if slightly disguised, is a viable solution.I am a little surprised that vaping isn't being promoted although I do remember the sense of relief when Skoal Bandit disappeared from the grid.The big difference is the changes over a period of time,smoking in the western world is in decline.These days we have energy drinks pouring vast sums into F1 and Prince Malik and William Storey offering to do likewise if only the stars aligned and the cheques cleared.
What has become even more widespread than smoking ever was is the use of technology to allow us to post here and to create the hardware with which to do it.Presumably the technology and social media giants are doing so well that they don't feel a need to use motorsports to promote their brands.In the case of some of them it would create the situation where an advertising company is spending it's money advertising itself.I'm sure we can think of companies in the online world that offer a service that extracts valuable information about it's users to bombard them with targeted advertising.It may well be that the targeting is more effective than painting a company name on the side of a racecar.Maybe they ought to be studying the demographics of the F1 audience.

[S griffin]

Let’s not forget Williams had Nicquetin CQ on the cars one time in the 00s. We have seen a few vape/e-cig brands in F1 and other. We have Mission Winnow on the Ferraris and Vyse on the Maccas and also seen IQOS, Blu and E-Lights in other types of racing

[wnut]

I think the new technical directive regulating pit stops is just poor on the part of the FIA.

https://racer.com/2021/06/25/horner-...-f1-pit-stops/

The sanction for getting it wrong is as Horner says draconian, loose wheel end of race, so why does the FIA have to intervene because Mercedes can't organize a quick pit stop?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think the new technical directive regulating pit stops is just poor on the part of the FIA.

https://racer.com/2021/06/25/horner-...-f1-pit-stops/

The sanction for getting it wrong is as Horner says draconian, loose wheel end of race, so why does the FIA have to intervene because Mercedes can't organize a quick pit stop?

It seems quite unnecessary.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by wnut

I think the new technical directive regulating pit stops is just poor on the part of the FIA.

https://racer.com/2021/06/25/horner-...-f1-pit-stops/

The sanction for getting it wrong is as Horner says draconian, loose wheel end of race, so why does the FIA have to intervene because Mercedes can't organize a quick pit stop?

I can understand why they are doing this, try and reduce the importance of pitstops, although I can't blame for Red Bull for being unhappy about it.

If they wanted to slow pitstop times, maybe they should just have pitstops like Alfa Romeo did in the 1925 Belgian GP.....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I can understand why they are doing this, try and reduce the importance of pitstops, although I can't blame for Red Bull for being unhappy about it.

If they wanted to slow pitstop times, maybe they should just have pitstops like Alfa Romeo did in the 1925 Belgian GP.....

Reduce the importance of pitstops? That will only happen if they get rid of the Option tyre.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Reduce the importance of pitstops? That will only happen if they get rid of the Option tyre.

Agreed. They should definitely make the Option tyre live up to their name

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It seems quite unnecessary.

Understanding their rationale requires a short diversion into human physiology.

It is not possible to react to either a visual or aural stimulus in zero time. It typically takes around a quarter of a second for a stimulus to be turned into a muscle movement. This is a mixture of electrical and chemical processes that cannot be reduced to zero time. A particular reaction to a particular stimulus can be trained and the muscles can be primed, which is how sprinters can get reaction times to the gun of around 0.15 seconds, but that is a very particular set of events.

F1 pitstops are not supposed to have any automation. That means there should be measurable gaps between elements which correspond to the crew members reacting to events. The FIA have noticed gaps between pit stop elements of between 0 and 0.2 seconds, which means it cannot solely be the result of a crew member seeing and reacting and are thus likely the result of automation.

This is another example of certain teams finding ways to what we might charitably describe as push the boundaries of the rules. As bella sagely observed on another thread, it's simple enough to work out what they have been doing by looking at the new rule, even if we don't ever hear details.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Agreed. They should definitely make the Option tyre live up to their name

I think that's better than getting rid of it, make it optional not mandatory.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Reduce the importance of pitstops? That will only happen if they get rid of the Option tyre.

I've always thought that the simplest rule change they could implement is you have to run all three compounds in a race. Is it too simplistic? I'm sure there are issues but a guaranteed two-stop race brings a little more intrigue.