[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Riccardo said in his Silverstone filming run in the new car, that it didn't.

Didn’t he bin the new car 🤔 just wondered ....

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Didn’t he bin the new car 🤔 just wondered ....

haha he did.

guess the halo saved his life!

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by steve_r

You mention that Ricciardo said it does not obstruct vision, so you have answered your own question.

Would if it was the same person...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Didn’t he bin the new car 🤔 just wondered ....

That is why I assumed the comment about the positive remark from DR was a joke.

Originally Posted by pole2pole

I read the other day that Bottas pumped a load of laps in on the sim which also has the halo fitted. He said there was no issues involving visibility in fact after a number of laps he forgot about it.

I want to point out one minor point here. I think when we talk about visibility and the Halo there are two parts of this...

1. Is it distracting?
2. How much does it obstruct the driver's view?

IMHO, the comment above about Bottas speaks only to #1 (particularly the "he forgot about it" part.) Your brain will ignore much that blocks your eyes (Such as your nose, glasses, etc. In this case it is the Halo that it ignores) and create a single image, but... it can't magically reconstruct what is happening behind an obstruction even if you mentally block it out. So how much of an issue #2 is will be determined in 2018 on track.

Richard

[chillibowl]

no doubt one can learn to look around it/ignore it but i still do have questions about visibility at the start line....specifically if everyone will have the same ability to see?

cars in different positions and the angle they have to look up at to see the starting lights kind of issues

have they even tested visibility from every stating box position on a grid?

STR put out a pic of its new car on track



have to say i thought the HALO would look 'smaller' but from this perspective it looks to be the largest most visible appendage on the car (besides the tires that is).

it really is a massive piece of kit.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no doubt one can learn to look around it/ignore it but i still do have questions about visibility at the start line....specifically if everyone will have the same ability to see?

I had a conversation at work earlier about this very thing, but with one addition: gradient and changes thereof.

Think about cars getting to the bottom of Eau Rouge. How much will the flip-flop piece obscure the vision of the road *above* and ahead just as they arrive at the compression? There are parts of Interlagos, too, where the driver's eye line is most definitely not flat but above the horizon.

I've stayed as measured as possible over the whole thing, but I'm now leaning toward the opinion that the Halo is either the right answer to the wrong question, or the wrong answer to the right question.

I have no doubt at all that it'll be great at keeping big intrusive things like wheels and the floors of other cars off the helmet, so that's a definite improvement. I remain unconvinced at the small high-speed projectile problem, though.

[Adam43]

IIRC Ricciardo said it was fine on the flat, but didn’t comment on gradients.

Although, also IIRC, it was tested at Spa.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no doubt one can learn to look around it/ignore it but i still do have questions about visibility at the start line....specifically if everyone will have the same ability to see?

I was thinking about the very same thing, what with how frenetic starts to a GP can be, cars either side as everyone jockeys for track position. Bottas says that after a few laps in the simulator he didn't notice it but this the actual start of the race, not a simulation.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Greem

I had a conversation at work earlier about this very thing, but with one addition: gradient and changes thereof.

I believe closed cockpit cars have to deal with this as well. Such as prototypes on the banking at Daytona as an extra example.

Richard

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I believe closed cockpit cars have to deal with this as well. Such as prototypes on the banking at Daytona as an extra example.

Richard

An example of this:
https://youtu.be/h5nsNxDlf-Q

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

An example of this:
https://youtu.be/h5nsNxDlf-Q

Thats a good video, but it should be noted that the visibility is not as bad as the video shows as the camera is set back further way from the windscreen. But... the visibility in current prototypes is limited and the point the video makes still stands. Oddly enough I have heard that drivers who move from open wheels have maybe commented more on the impacts of the front fenders more than the cockpit view? I think that includes straight up visibility (can't see what is behind the fendor) plus not being able to see if one wheel is locked under braking (so you can modulate pressure to prevent flat spotting)

Look at this video of Alonso on the banking at Daytona at the recent 24hr race (jumping in at 6m28s)...

https://youtu.be/H9Ek6c9rExg?t=6m28s

They switch between a camera that sits behind (and slightly above) the driver's head and one that is on the dash. On the dash you get a better view, the one behind his head can show the difficulty of looking down the banking (effectively looking up and to the left) and how the top of the car may block the view.

In the 70's Porsche added a small window in the ceiling of the 917 to allow for drivers to see more of the track when on the banking at Daytona.



I don't think that window was used on other tracks.

Richard

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no doubt one can learn to look around it/ignore it but i still do have questions about visibility at the start line....specifically if everyone will have the same ability to see?

cars in different positions and the angle they have to look up at to see the starting lights kind of issues

have they even tested visibility from every stating box position on a grid?

STR put out a pic of its new car on track

have to say i thought the HALO would look 'smaller' but from this perspective it looks to be the largest most visible appendage on the car (besides the tires that is).

it really is a massive piece of kit.

Hopefully the HALO really screws with the aerodynamics of the rear wing and forces the teams to run less downforce on the front to balance the aero loading which will in turn improve the racing.

[F1Guy]

Toto Wolff: "I'm not impressed with the whole thing & if you give me a chainsaw I would take it off. We need to look after driver safety but what we have implemented is aesthetically not appealing. We need to tackle that & come up with something that looks better."

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Toto Wolff: "I'm not impressed with the whole thing & if you give me a chainsaw I would take it off. We need to look after driver safety but what we have implemented is aesthetically not appealing. We need to tackle that & come up with something that looks better."

He could have said something after Vettel did his lap round Silverstone but chose not to.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He could have said something after Vettel did his lap round Silverstone but chose not to.

It makes me wonder if Mercedes are experiencing an issue with the halo on their car?

Teams are perfectly happy to fit 'ugly' if they can get it to work, or they perceive an advantage. Take the T-bar as an example. If Toto has a problem, it won't be aesthetics.

[bella]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Toto Wolff: "I'm not impressed with the whole thing & if you give me a chainsaw I would take it off. We need to look after driver safety but what we have implemented is aesthetically not appealing. We need to tackle that & come up with something that looks better."

it’s hard to disagree with that isn’t it?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It makes me wonder if Mercedes are experiencing an issue with the halo on their car?

Teams are perfectly happy to fit 'ugly' if they can get it to work, or they perceive an advantage. Take the T-bar as an example. If Toto has a problem, it won't be aesthetics.

That's what I was thinking.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It makes me wonder if Mercedes are experiencing an issue with the halo on their car?

Teams are perfectly happy to fit 'ugly' if they can get it to work, or they perceive an advantage. Take the T-bar as an example. If Toto has a problem, it won't be aesthetics.

Generating all sorts of vortices to mess with the nice laminar flow to the rear wing, this could be good yet!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah - his 'we need something that looks better' is when you view it in the wind tunnel, and the airflow is enhanced.

In his mind - this is something they 'tackled & came up with something that looked better....'

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Yeah - his 'we need something that looks better' is when you view it in the wind tunnel, and the airflow is enhanced.

In his mind - this is something they 'tackled & came up with something that looked better....'

Indeed.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It makes me wonder if Mercedes are experiencing an issue with the halo on their car?

Teams are perfectly happy to fit 'ugly' if they can get it to work, or they perceive an advantage. Take the T-bar as an example. If Toto has a problem, it won't be aesthetics.

Nah, it’s just an opportunity for Christian to sound in touch with the fans.

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by wnut

Generating all sorts of vortices to mess with the nice laminar flow to the rear wing, this could be good yet!

I thought that they were going to be allowed to use some form of fairing to minimise the flow disruption or has this changed recently?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/w...d-fans-935056/

Edited to add - Oh goody, yet more areas for aerodynamic bits to be fittted and for the FIA to have to issue 'clarifications' about

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Toto Wolff: "I'm not impressed with the whole thing & if you give me a chainsaw I would take it off. We need to look after driver safety but what we have implemented is aesthetically not appealing. We need to tackle that & come up with something that looks better."

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He could have said something after Vettel did his lap round Silverstone but chose not to.

I had the same thought. Toto often has a lot to say but has waited till the halo is fitted to the cars and regulated before commenting.

Time to say something surely would have been when the various options were being considered?

All his comment sounds like now is shouting after the horse has bolted and attention seeking.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I had the same thought. Toto often has a lot to say but has waited till the halo is fitted to the cars and regulated before commenting.

ever thought that nobody asked him?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bella

ever thought that nobody asked him?

Toto usually has rather a lot to say, did he loose his voice when it came to the Halo I wonder ?