Ferrari - were they sand bagging in Monza testing

[Smurfer]

Hey guys,

In recent testing at Monza, Ferrari were behind the opposition however in the first practice session of this weekend's GP they are already 8 tenths ahead of anything they did in testing.

Did they sand bag during the test or is it that they ran heavy during previous testing and are now running light fuel loads? Only time will tell I guess.

Surely if they sand bag during a test then they won't really know how they stack up.

Cheers

[FPV GTHO]

Massa has said their fastest testing times came at the beggining of a stint, so when they were heavy. He compared it to McLarens times coming at the end of a stint when theyre lighter. Its not that simple though as assumably if theyre both running fresh tyres on their stints, Ferrari are running with more tyre grip but more weight, and McLaren the opposite.

Are they sandbagging? Hard to say as always. Perhaps they just never went for a bansai lap or anything in testing, or theyve managed to tweak their package since then. As you say, if they sandbag they dont know how they stack up.

[Gt_R]

Ferrari are not sandbagging. If they have any intentions to do so, Massa won't have come out to say what he did regarding the Monza times, but rather play along.

The Monza tests is more of a case of different strategies employed by different teams. Mclaren opt for fast times at the end of stints, while Ferrari concentrate on long run, working with fuel loads and going for consistency rather than outright pace.

[Adam43]

They are, presumably, sand-bagging in the second session then.

As said above, different teams test different things. It is unlikely sand-bagging will have any benefit, McLaren (or anyone else) isn't going to try less because of it. The only thing it does is stop Ferrari running their car at its full potential.

[pottiella]

well Kimi had a hydraulics problem and Massa was doing purely long runs in the second session; while Fernando got his hot laps presumably doing ultimate pace qualifying simulations that he missed in the morning with his own problems, when the other three were doing them to make Ferrari end top.

I don't think sandbagging is necessarily a huge issue today, just different programmes. The only bit that could have happened was when fernando, lewis and massa were all doing 9-10 laps in one long run, all together on the track, and the comparisons generally showed McLaren to be quicker. It could just be a case of different fuel loads in that instance.

[ralf fan]

If you look at Kimi and Massa's first session times and Alonso's 2nd session time, there hardly is anything in it. Looks set for a 4 way fight barring mechanical gremlins

[Dutton]

I doubt there has been sand-bagging in testing or practice (we haven't really seen any of that since the start of 1998, IMO). There was plenty of it before then, though.

The practice times are quite intriguing: looks like there may be very little in it between BMW and Renault, whilst, I feel, Mclaren have the edge over Ferrari (in the way Ferrari had the edge in Turkey).

Naturally, I hope I am totally wrong and that Ferrari have been massively sand-bagging so far: this is unlikely, though, I suspect.

[Knowlesy]

It's rare people sandbag in practice.

I therefore propose banning of the word sandbagging (auto censor perhaps?).

[pottiella]

firstly, I think that's just abusing your authority

secondly, if you were to auto censor, what would it be? sand bag? sandbag? sand-bag? not to mention all of those ending in "ing"

[Knowlesy]

I'd ensure we cover all bases, no matter how ludicrous.

[Marbot]

More importantly,were Ferrari Handbagging in practice?

[JeremySmith]

I think we will leave that to McLaren..

[ralf fan]

So then were Mclaren sand bagging in practice 1?

[JeremySmith]

No...

[Alexandre]

What is the point of banning the word. That is just foolish.
I do not like Alonso but for sure today he was very fast.
Anyway, what matter is that who finish first tomorroow.

[Adam43]

I now support the banning of all derivatives of "sand-bagging" and also the banning of the word "joke".

[Kirk]

It now appears that indeed the Ferraris were not "sand-bagging" and simply cannot keep up to McLarens. Hopefully the qualy results will not equate into the 2 McLarens running and hiding tomorrow, but barring unusual circumstances it certainly appears that that will be the case. Having said that, it seems FA has found some extra pace and Lewis may be hard pressed to prevent a runaway win.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Kirk

it seems FA has found some extra pace and Lewis may be hard pressed to prevent a runaway win.

It may be that the extra pace comes from elsewhere.

I'm not sure that I'd want either Ferrari or McLaren to win the race today.I have a bad feeling about the days ahead.

[JeremySmith]

The whole thing is most odd. I know it's Divine intervention!

[Marbot]

But there is a race and we should enjoy it for what it is.

[JeremySmith]

Of course and we will...

[Marbot]

Normally,however,you'd expect to see the Ferrari crew looking pretty despondant at being second best to McLaren.That just wasn't the case today.Either they're confident of their race pace.......or something else!

Anyway enough of the pessimism already,we can still understand what's going on from fifth place back.

[Kirk]

If there ever was a time to forget the politics and enjoy the racing, it is now. Who knows, maybe this will be the break through race for BMW and I'd like to see Honda finish in the points. Just when you think everything looks most predictable, something unusual occurs.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Who knows, maybe this will be the break through race for BMW and I'd like to see Honda finish in the points.

Yep! A win for BMW (unlikely) or another point for Honda (more unlikely still ) would be the ideal antidote for the 'Espionage Blues'.

[pottiella]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

It may be that the extra pace comes from elsewhere.

I'm not sure that I'd want either Ferrari or McLaren to win the race today.I have a bad feeling about the days ahead.

firstly, we'll see tomorrow, and I could be proved wrong, but having followed the free practices intently, and then their correspondence to qualifying, I would say Fernando definitely has got some natural extra pace on Lewis. Lewis is consistently a tenth quicker in the first sector - though sometimes Fernando seems to do a little better, though less often - but Fernando is definitively quicker...dare I say "most confident"...in s2 and s3 in particular over absolutely everyone. By those margins, and considering Fernando was starting to smash his own time on his final run, but only really set a representitive quicker time in s1 (a further 0.08s than Lewis' so Fernando already 0.11s ahead of Lewis before even starting s2), we can safely assume without mistakes he would have absolutely destroyed his own time by about a quarter of a second - probably near 3tenths faster than Lewis.

Taking on differences in fuel, only that extra 0.11s by virtue of s1 really indicates Lewis is marginally heavier, because Fernando has been quicker than Lewis in s2 and s3 anyway to warrant a quicker time. Had Lewis been lighter by that same margin he is probably heavier, s2 and s3 would probably still have put Fernando on pole.

Its all speculation, and pointless now anyway, but it suggests Lewis' side of the garage might have realised he might still not get pole even by going lighter than Alonso, and thus fuelled him slightly heavier to play the strategy game rather than qualifying...but not by much, just to make sure front row was ensured.

If I'm not wrong, and Lewis is only a lap or two heavier than Alonso, PROVIDED Alonso maintains his lead after turn 1 (and that's a big IF as he's screwed starts up several times this year), and of course provided he doesn't have an unforseen problem with car/tyres/engine - with all these factors, this race really is Alonso's to lose more than win. Yes, Lewis and the two Ferraris are closer on long runs, but Alonso is no slower, and thus not really disadvantaged by increased performance of his rivals.

oh and secondly, i have an awful feeling that the return of Spa is going to be marred by quite possibly the worst event in Formula One history (aside from driver deaths of course...). It's almost a dead cert ain't it?