[Driver] The GOAT - Round One - Villeneuve.J vs Villeneuve.G

[crmalcolm]

The twenty-fifth match-up in Round One sees Villeneuve.J vs Villeneuve.G.

So who do you vote for as the greater driver?

Jacques Villeneuve
Jacques Villeneuve’s career was one of three acts. In the first act (his first three seasons), he raced for Williams, landing immediately in the spotlight as Williams competed for titles in 1996 and 1997. In the second act, he gave away a seat at a top team to race for the BAR team, which was co-founded by his personal manager Craig Pollock. At BAR he toiled away in the midfield for five seasons, delivering some of his best driving performances but only reaching the podium twice. In the third act, he lost the faith of his own team and floated from Renault to Sauber, looking nothing like the driver that had once been among the best on the grid.

In his first year at Williams, Villeneuve surprised incumbent teammate Damon Hill by taking the championship fight to the final round. In 1997, Williams was still the best car, but not by quite the same margin as it had been in 1996. Hill had been replaced by Heinz-Harald Frentzen, who was being touted as the next Michael Schumacher.

“When Williams signed him, they signed him to be the next champion, and that’s how they promoted it. That was enough to just make me mean. At that point I just knew that I had to destroy him. And that’s what I did. I didn’t want to fight him in the championship, as I had to fight Michael [Schumacher].” – Jacques Villeneuve

Villeneuve turned opinion on its head by beating Frentzen 6-5 in counting races, 13-4 in qualifying, and 81-42 in points on his way to winning the title, causing permanent reputational damage for Frentzen. In 1998, when the Williams car was no longer as competitive. Villeneuve was more closely matched with Frentzen, scoring 7-7 in counting races, 10-6 in qualifying, and 21-17 in points.

After his move to BAR, Villeneuve’s performance was thought by many to have dropped off along with the results. However, his performances alongside teammates indicate that he was still driving at a very high level, and the model rates 2000-2002 his 3-year peak interval. From 1999-2000, Villeneuve was paired with Ricardo Zonta, who arrived with a strong junior record, including titles in Brazilian F3, South American F3, F3000, and the FIA GT Championship. Villeneuve dominated Zonta 10-2 in counting races, 26-3 in qualifying, and 17-3 in points. From 2001-2002, Villeneuve was paired with Olivier Panis. This was a closer match, but Villeneuve again came out on top, 8-5 in counting races, 21-13 in qualifying, and 15-8 in points.

By 2003, Villeneuve’s performances appeared to wane. Not taking his extremely talented teammate Jenson Button seriously at first, he was beaten 2-3 in counting races, 7-8 in qualifying, and 6-12 in points. Villeneuve’s performances continued to deteriorate with his dimming motivations. After a poor 3-race cameo for Renault in 2004, Villeneuve returned for a full season with Sauber in 2005. He was beaten by Felipe Massa 3-10 in counting races, 6-13 in qualifying, and 9-11 in points. In 2006, Villeneuve was beaten by Nick Heidfeld 2-6 in counting races, 7-5 in qualifying, and 7-13 in points, at which point he was replaced by Robert Kubica.

Gilles Villeneuve
If we take anecdotes over achievements, Villeneuve is surely one of the greatest of all time. With an unsentimental mathematical model that only considers race results (and doesn’t consider team orders in 1979), Villeneuve remains ranked outside the top 50.

Villeneuve was a spectacular driver with uncanny car control and wet-weather flair, but he also made frequent driver errors. In 1978, he was beaten by the more experienced Carlos Reutemann 6-7 in counting races, 4-12 in qualifying, and 17-48 in points. Against Jody Scheckter, Villeneuve scored 11-5 in counting races, 20-9 in qualifying, and 59-62 in points. In this instance, the total points tally does not tell the full story. Villeneuve was often the quicker driver in 1979, when Ferrari had the dominant car, but Scheckter emerged as the number one driver, in part due to poorer reliability for Villeneuve. In 1980, when Villeneuve was clearly beating Scheckter, the car was scarcely capable of points.

From 1981 to his fatal accident in 1982, Villeneuve raced alongside Didier Pironi at Ferrari. Overall, against Pironi, Villeneuve scored 3-4 in counting races, 14-6 in qualifying, and 31-19 in points.

[chillibowl]

knocking the Canadians out early i see!

for most i suspect this will be an easy call but im going the other way.

dealing with the legacy, the hype from Indy, rookie of the year, and then delivering a title against Schumi.

after that he was beyond rubbish but the title means a lot in how i rank drivers so i should try to stay true to that.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

knocking the Canadians out early i see!

I can assure you that the seedings were made without bias, and purely on statistical evidence. And I was pleasantly surprised to see Villeneuve vs Villeneuve and Fittipaldi vs Fittipaldi.....

Just waiting to see if the Hills or Rosbergs line up later in the bracket.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

knocking the Canadians out early i see!

for most i suspect this will be an easy call but im going the other way.

dealing with the legacy, the hype from Indy, rookie of the year, and then delivering a title against Schumi.

after that he was beyond rubbish but the title means a lot in how i rank drivers so i should try to stay true to that.

At least one of them gets through.

[FIRE]

Jacques

[Adam43]

I’m a little worried here.

It’s obvious, but...
https://youtu.be/fhxMnYlkHeI

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I’m a little worried here.

It’s obvious, but...
https://youtu.be/fhxMnYlkHeI

Yep! That kind of thing was why I voted G and not J!

[Aysedasi]

Again, you have to balance what was achieved against what might have been. Gilles was fast and spectacular (and that clip is of course now legendary) but the overall achievement in 3-4 years wasn't such as to enable him to overhaul the Madness fan in this poll for me...

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yep! That kind of thing was why I voted G and not J!

It did it for me too.

[chillibowl]

would not have thought it would be this close.

clearly the Madness has infected us all!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

would not have thought it would be this close.

On paper - they are separated by 11 seeding places (but which way?)

[chunterer]

As much as I loved it when Jacques came through, dad was the better driver!