[Tech Issue] A Charlie Whiting 'yellow flag them all' button

[Born Racer]

Was initially unsure as to whether to prefix this thread as one of a tech issue or rules; it amounts to both, but one of the most important questions regarding it concerns its technical application.

As we saw in Suzuka, the question of slowing down sufficiently for yellow flags again surfaced. Drivers are usually a long way from 'being prepared to stop', which is what they're supposed to do for waved yellows, but can we be surprised they are not, given that they all do what they think they can just get away with, and what others do?

Based on an idea in F1 '05 on the PS2 (), where you get a black and white flag appear on-screen if you cut a corner, thus forcing your car to slow for a determined amount of time, is there much against such an application in real-life F1 for yellow flags?

Would it be dangerous to rely on an automatic system which slows all cars down when yellows are out, which would neutralise the race and slow all of them equally? Is it feasible? Admittedly, I haven't thought it through a great deal, but I thought it worth throwing out there, and any electronics experts may have a better idea whether this could work.

[duke_toaster]

I think it might be dangerous to have a system that automatically slows cars down for a number of reasons.

Suzuka's incident should have seen a red flag (in a race the SC would have been brought out), but as the clock had hit zero they would have meant that lots of drivers wouldn't have been able to set times.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Would it be dangerous to rely on an automatic system which slows all cars down when yellows are out

Slowing them down, as in using the brakes? That would be very dangerous. Cutting the accelerator might be more feasible, but the problem I see with that is that it would just make the cars coast to the designated speed - and drivers would just rely on the system even if it might be necessary to slow down more quickly.

[JamesH]

Just backing off the accelerator gives over a G of deceleration in an F1 car I think - no need for brakes.

[VIVA GT]

Could be damned inconvenient though if it happens when the car is half way through a high speed bend and the demon driver is balancing it on the throttle...

[Born Racer]

It would have to be cutting the throttle. I suppose you could have a five-second warning on the 'dashboard' (i.e. steering wheel) or some such thing.

[bravo]

How about the system only kicks in as they get into the yellow flag zone?

Maybe designated speed limits to stick to through these zones? Something a bit faster than pit lane speed limit... At least that would get them down to a maximum speed.

[ECW Dan Selby]

How about speed bumps rising out of the track surface..?

Selby

[MCWB]

"Pits are closed, beware of rising bollards".

[Greem]

Originally Posted by MCWB

"Pits are closed, beware of rising bollards".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjgq2Bgbc_0

Some people will never learn...

[V8 Fireworks]

Option A) Drivers maintain (given sector times to match by FIA) then restart with original gaps +/- 1 sec.
Option B) Tripe file restart shootout style. All lapped cars returned to the lead lap. Order of restart positions decided by random ballot.

Then let the fans vote!

[ChrisPage]

Would it not be an idea where a red flag comes out near the end of a session to just reset the timing for the restart so that there is enough time for a run? Then there's no excuse for not slowing for any flag and the red flag may be able to be used instead of trying to neutralise with a yellow. If you intend the cars to just slow done on the yellow, it's effectivly the same as a red flag as backing off destroys a qually lap.

Adding an extra minute or two may throw the telly times out that touch more, but what looks worse on the telly, a slight delay, or a global audience watching 1:45 ticking down pointlessly with no cars on track due to 'procedure'. Add a minute on, get 'em all out for a do or die blast!

[werner]

I liked the old format of 1 flying lap for everybody. It is fair, because nobody ever will block you. It is nice for the viewer, because you don't miss anything. And it is very though on drivers, one mistake can get you at the back of the grid. But you can't blame anyone, but yourself.

[ECW Dan Selby]

But I think these are the "best drivers in the World".

Negotiating traffic is just one of those things that we shouldn't just eradicate. It's a lottery, to a certain extent. Everyone will be effected by traffic at some point.

Plus, it's also up to the teams to decide when to release their man.

Selby

[jab]

Originally Posted by werner

It is fair, because nobody ever will block you..

Turkey 2005?

[beau1]

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

Would it not be an idea where a red flag comes out near the end of a session to just reset the timing for the restart so that there is enough time for a run? Then there's no excuse for not slowing for any flag and the red flag may be able to be used instead of trying to neutralise with a yellow. If you intend the cars to just slow done on the yellow, it's effectivly the same as a red flag as backing off destroys a qually lap.

However, its just the luck of the drivers, if they choose to do their flying lap at the end of a session then they are running the risk of this happening. The same as a driver who may be one-stopping during a race may lose out due to a late red flag.

[Born Racer]

Could be damned inconvenient though if it happens when the car is half way through a high speed bend and the demon driver is balancing it on the throttle.

This is the one sticking point I can think of. In all, it's a very high-tech solution to an issue that could be solved by the drivers themselves, but they're all going to try to go as quickly as the car in front, or as quickly as they think they can get away with.

I liked the old format of 1 flying lap for everybody. It is fair, because nobody ever will block you. It is nice for the viewer, because you don't miss anything. And it is very though on drivers, one mistake can get you at the back of the grid. But you can't blame anyone, but yourself.

I enjoyed that aspect, but what about track conditions? If it rains on your run, that's not fair.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

Would it not be an idea where a red flag comes out near the end of a session to just reset the timing for the restart so that there is enough time for a run? Then there's no excuse for not slowing for any flag and the red flag may be able to be used instead of trying to neutralise with a yellow. If you intend the cars to just slow done on the yellow, it's effectivly the same as a red flag as backing off destroys a qually lap.

I suggested that before - if a Quali were to be red flagged with less than 2:00 to go the clock would be rewound to 2:00 (possibly 2:20 at Spa and Singapore). OIt would have some downsides, but it would mean there wouldn't be a situation with cars on quali laps flying between bits of carbon fibre.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

This is the one sticking point I can think of. In all, it's a very high-tech solution to an issue that could be solved by the drivers themselves, but they're all going to try to go as quickly as the car in front, or as quickly as they think they can get away with.

I enjoyed that aspect, but what about track conditions? If it rains on your run, that's not fair.

I don't agree, if it rains on your lap that's unlucky but it is not unfair because the rules are the same for all, it could happen to anyone and it wasn't caused by one of the other competitors. And yes I too loved the single lap qually, dramatic and interesting and a real test for the drivers. I'd be delighted if we went back to it, but please no race fuel that's silly whatever the qualifying format.

[Born Racer]

I respect the differentiation you're making between 'unlucky' and 'unfair', but I think that's just semantics. I basically meant that at least when everyone runs together, you have the choice of when to go, even if there's an element of fortune in getting it right.

You also have the issue of rubber being laid down.

[Tal Aras]

Alternatively, use the lo-tech solution, as they did that weekend. Punish the drivers who don't slow down. With all the telematry, it must be possible for the FIA to determine speed in the area under flags.

However, they do need to add time to sessions affected by red flags, as they are penalising drivers for someone elses mistake.

BTW did anyone hear Jenson's BBC podcast after Szuka. I'm sure I heard him say it was safer to carry on at full speed rather than slow down.

[Bakersboy]

Originally Posted by Tal Aras

Alternatively, use the lo-tech solution, as they did that weekend. Punish the drivers who don't slow down. With all the telematry, it must be possible for the FIA to determine speed in the area under flags.

However, they do need to add time to sessions affected by red flags, as they are penalising drivers for someone elses mistake.

BTW did anyone hear Jenson's BBC podcast after Szuka. I'm sure I heard him say it was safer to carry on at full speed rather than slow down.

We've talked around this in the marshal's forum and come to the conclusion that some of the drivers might like to stand trackside during a period of waved yellows. Better yet help a snatch recovery.

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by Bakersboy

We've talked around this in the marshal's forum and come to the conclusion that some of the drivers might like to stand trackside during a period of waved yellows. Better yet help a snatch recovery.

Can't see the teams being willing to let their multi-million pound investments stand trackside, without that nice car to protect them.