[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[joeb]

Originally Posted by CTD

But that was the tribute design

So the pink on the 963 is actually a tribute to the GT win

[Adam43]

How did they do. A pro squad.

Sebring Average Laps

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	Laurens VANTHOOR (Porsche 6)	1:49.324	1:49.579	1:49.774	1:50.268
2	Frédéric MAKOWIECKI (Porsche 5)	1:49.511	1:50.263	1:50.498	1:50.891
3	Michael CHRISTENSEN (Porsche 5)	1:49.626	1:49.913	1:50.098	1:50.438
4	Kévin ESTRE (Porsche 6)	1:49.676	1:50.089	1:50.286	1:50.546
5	Dane CAMERON (Porsche 5)	1:50.487	1:51.006	1:51.233	1:51.697
6	André LOTTERER (Porsche 6)	1:50.754	1:50.996	1:51.147	1:51.593

CHRISTENSEN and ESTRE got the laps in. They seemed to be the team leaders. VANTHOOR was the quicker I would say.

Portimao Average Laps

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	André LOTTERER (Porsche 6)	1:33.304	1:33.835	1:34.197	1:34.517
2	Kévin ESTRE (Porsche 6)	1:33.332	1:33.907	1:34.147	1:34.470
3	Michael CHRISTENSEN (Porsche 5)	1:33.844	1:34.075	1:34.321	1:35.437
4	Laurens VANTHOOR (Porsche 6)	1:33.871	1:34.219	1:34.393	1:34.689
5	Frédéric MAKOWIECKI (Porsche 5)	1:34.067	1:34.672	1:34.846	1:35.160
6	Dane CAMERON (Porsche 5)	1:34.240	1:34.494	1:34.685	1:35.092

Very consistent across the drivers, but car 6 had the better running. Fairer share of the driving this time.

Spa Average Laps

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	Yifei YE (Porsche 38)	2:05.427	2:07.846	2:09.245	NA
2	Laurens VANTHOOR (Porsche 6)	2:06.217	2:06.870	2:07.301	2:09.134
3	Frédéric MAKOWIECKI (Porsche 5)	2:06.803	2:07.424	2:07.946	2:09.354
4	Michael CHRISTENSEN (Porsche 5)	2:07.103	2:07.974	2:08.637	2:13.988
5	William STEVENS (Porsche 38)	2:07.154	2:07.728	2:08.462	2:09.607
6	Dane CAMERON (Porsche 5)	2:07.291	2:07.933	2:08.446	2:09.575
7	Antonio Felix DA COSTA (Porsche 38)	2:07.856	2:08.257	2:08.566	2:09.872

A new car this time. Tom Brady's car had a good run. Acquitted itself well despite the team only just taking delivery. STEVENS got the most running. VANTHOOR again the quickest.

[Hawkwood]

Interesting that at Spa, Ye had the fastest individual lap by quite a margin, but that he couldn't hold that consistancy as well as the others, so his 20-lap average was the slowest, again, by quite some margin.
He's the least experienced in endurance racing, so I'm sure it'll come to him - he plainly has the speed.

[Adam43]

Good spot.

Looking how the race played out for the Porsche team and highlighting Ye, it looks like he held his own with the no.5 (Cameron) for his stint. At times catching at others losing out. He ended his stint basically where he started.

Two charts, one showing the no.6 too. This shows that while going it was the fastest of the three. In this one the winner was no.5, but as the gap here is relative to the leader, it was no.6 at the top for the first third (ish).

The second chart is just no. 5 adn 38. At the begining 38 led with its tyre choice. Then you can see the pitstops play out. Right at the end 38 seems to ease off (relatively).

Ye did good.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Interesting that at Spa, Ye had the fastest individual lap by quite a margin, but that he couldn't hold that consistancy as well as the others, so his 20-lap average was the slowest, again, by quite some margin.
He's the least experienced in endurance racing, so I'm sure it'll come to him - he plainly has the speed.

Was there anything external like great drafting that could account for a boost beyond the others speed? Or a bit of Jon Field going there, fast but hard on the tools?

[Adam43]

Certainly you can get a benefit there. Or just cutting a corner. that would still appear in this data whether it was “deleted” or not.

He’s got 3-4 of those laps.

Could look at the previous LMP2 races? ….

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Could look at the previous LMP2 races? ….

OK. The Jota lot:

Sebring Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	Oliver RASMUSSEN (Oreca 28)	1:51.494	1:51.795	1:52.012	1:52.372
2	Pietro FITTIPALDI (Oreca 28)	1:51.660	1:52.295	1:52.595	1:53.373
3	William STEVENS (Oreca 48)	1:51.788	1:52.038	1:52.207	1:52.429
4	Yifei YE (Oreca 48)	1:52.053	1:52.409	1:52.734	1:57.502
5	David BECKMANN (Oreca 48)	1:52.500	1:52.820	1:53.090	1:53.559
6	David HEINEMEIER-HANSSON (Oreca 28)	1:53.126	1:53.487	1:53.770	1:54.384

Stevens got all the running in 48. Rasmussen in the 28. They were the quickest fastest lap in their cars. They were very consistent between both of them.

Ye had the least laps. Did OK. It was the David's that showed a lower pace.

Portimao Average Lap time

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	Pietro FITTIPALDI (Oreca 28)	1:35.272	1:35.764	1:35.923	1:36.173
2	Yifei YE (Oreca 48)	1:35.596	1:35.981	1:36.185	1:36.578
3	Antonio Felix DA COSTA (Oreca 48)	1:35.680	1:36.014	1:36.181	1:36.401
4	Oliver RASMUSSEN (Oreca 28)	1:36.004	1:36.363	1:36.647	1:37.172
5	David BECKMANN (Oreca 48)	1:36.215	1:36.538	1:36.690	1:37.059
6	David HEINEMEIER-HANSSON (Oreca 28)	1:36.814	1:37.154	1:37.582	1:38.619

Da Costa in for Stevens this race.
Ye the fastest in the 48. Again didn't get many laps compared to Fittipaldi (the best) and Da Costa, but was consistent with them for his best 30 odd laps.

Spa

Rank	Car	Fastest	Top 10	Top 20	Top 40
1	Yifei YE (Porsche 38)	2:05.427	2:07.846	2:09.245	NA
2	William STEVENS (Porsche 38)	2:07.154	2:07.728	2:08.462	2:09.607
3	Pietro FITTIPALDI (Oreca 28)	2:07.264	2:08.623	2:09.285	2:09.960
4	Antonio Felix DA COSTA (Porsche 38)	2:07.856	2:08.257	2:08.566	2:09.872
5	Oliver RASMUSSEN (Oreca 28)	2:08.535	2:09.183	2:09.723	2:28.053
6	David HEINEMEIER-HANSSON (Oreca 28)	2:10.611	2:11.038	2:11.870	NA

Fittipaldi leads the way in laps and LMP2 pace.

Relatively strong pace from the lower category car - but this is all very dependent on when you were running. Overall though the LMP2s were only 2 laps down on the winner at the end (Jota 1 lap down in the Porsche and 3 in the Oreca).

Included the Porsche for a comparison and a reminder it is the Porsche thread! Da Costa, Stevens and Ye in the Porsche.

[joeb]

Just wanted to say I complained about the Le Mans livery when it was introduced but i am completely changing my mind. On track that looks great.

[Adam43]

Especially early in the race when the three of them were nose to tail.

[Gerard C]

For a long time ago now all the designs have been tested "as will be seen on telly". It started with F1's and the triky thing to design is a Moto GP rider's crash helmet. Hence sometimes the decorated things looks better on telly than live.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by joeb

Just wanted to say I complained about the Le Mans livery when it was introduced but i am completely changing my mind. On track that looks great.

+1

[FIRE]

Disappointing result for Porsche Penske.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Disappointing result for Porsche Penske.

And Hertz Jota. And Porsche full stop.

A car that lacks top speed will always find it hard to pass, especially at circuits like la Sarthe and Daytona. Add that to driver mistakes and you have today's result.

Not sure how much BoP will help honestly.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Disappointing result for Porsche Penske.

Very and outclassed by customer team Jota.

[Adam43]

Still sad for JOTA.

[joeb]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Porsche has just as much to worry about as Peugeot on the car reliability side of things. They are having issues with the electronics that the other LMDH cars are not having. This is despite them testing for the longest.

[supermario21]

Originally Posted by J Jay

And Hertz Jota. And Porsche full stop.

A car that lacks top speed will always find it hard to pass, especially at circuits like la Sarthe and Daytona. Add that to driver mistakes and you have today's result.

Not sure how much BoP will help honestly.

The lack of top end speed probably forces some of the driving errors, no? Like Estre trying to dive bomb traffic this AM.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by supermario21

The lack of top end speed probably forces some of the driving errors, no? Like Estre trying to dive bomb traffic this AM.

Good point. All the more reason that it is a baffling design choice for a car going to a Daytona and Le Mans, where top speed is king.

[JoeW04]

The 919 didn’t have a great Le Mans the first year it arrived and that car turned out alright. They had a poor race but don’t write Porsche off just yet.

[supermario21]

Originally Posted by JoeW04

The 919 didn’t have a great Le Mans the first year it arrived and that car turned out alright. They had a poor race but don’t write Porsche off just yet.

I guess I'd disagree slightly, weren't they pretty much on the pace and almost won in their first going? 1 I think made it to 21.5 hours?

[tomcug]

Originally Posted by supermario21

The lack of top end speed probably forces some of the driving errors, no? Like Estre trying to dive bomb traffic this AM.

Isn't the Porsche 963 the fastest LMDh in a straight line? Clearly quicker than BMW and Caddy, not sure about Honda tho. They will never match straight line speed of LMHs due to no front axle hybrid but at least they have good downforce levels, clearly the quickest hypercar in the Porsche curves. The main concern is IMO reliability, in that aspect that's same kind of shitbox Peugeout is. Pace with current BOP was really good in the opening stages of the race, before all cars started dropping down due to various things happening.

[Matador]

I don't think Porsche have a speed problem (at Le Mans). Their cars were actually quite fast at some points during the race, not sure why everyone is saying that they looked disappointing (apart from delivering results).

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Matador

I don't think Porsche have a speed problem (at Le Mans). Their cars were actually quite fast at some points during the race, not sure why everyone is saying that they looked disappointing (apart from delivering results).

They definately had the speed but poor reliability and miriad of mistakes hurt them
On Sunday afternoon the number 5 was laping constantly in the 28-29s
This seems to be a trend with Penske at long distance races - check their record with Acura at Daytona and Sebring

[ederss7]

Originally Posted by supermario21

I guess I'd disagree slightly, weren't they pretty much on the pace and almost won in their first going? 1 I think made it to 21.5 hours?

In 2014 race pace wasn't as good as qualifyng pace, but they managed to take the kead in the final hours. Both cars struggled to finish, though.
This years debut was laughable.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by ederss7

In 2014 race pace wasn't as good as qualifyng pace, but they managed to take the kead in the final hours. Both cars struggled to finish, though.
This years debut was laughable.

I expected them to go better in race pace in qualifying in 2014, but it took them time. I knew they would do better next time, just reliability needed to be better

This year though they seemed to be caught and perhaps underestimated things more than a bit