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Old 4 Apr 2023, 21:00 (Ref:4150438)   #126
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
The only similar(ish) example I can think of is American Football. In certain circumstances, a team in possession of the ball can run down the clock without their opponent being able to improve their position.

Possibly you could also consider Cricket. For example - a team batting last needing more than 6 runs a ball can only hold on for a draw.
I would suggest that neither of those are sports that motor racing should wish to draw inspiration from in any degree whatsoever.
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Old 4 Apr 2023, 21:46 (Ref:4150443)   #127
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A fair competition would allow for safety car laps not to be counted or at the very least ensure the competitors can actually compete at the conclusion of the race.
As someone else pointed out. That option opens other other cans of worms such as the need to refuel cars.

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And if one lap sprints aren't acceptable, as appears to be the popular opinion here, what about two, three or what about five or is it seven?

Where is that sweet spot?
I think at the end of the day, there is likely to always be some scenarios in which the race will end with a wimper vs. a bang. While not ideal, finishing under yellow, etc. is an option. Not a desired one, but a valid option.

I have another view on this as well. I think most complain about the potential for chaos when you effectively create these super short sprint races. If F1 is the pinnacle of motorsports and this is supposed to be the best of the best. Why not just let them go racing. Be it 3, 2 or 1 lap left? If people crash out, so be it. Clearly the entire field didn't crash out. To finish first, first you must finish.



The problem is, while I think there is a logic to that idea, there are real practical problems. The reality is... drivers WILL act like idiots (even if they are the "best") and drive in very risky ways. We all expect the chaos of these late race restarts to be way beyond that of normal race start standing starts. Accidents will happen. Risk of injury will be higher. These restarts will have championship impacts. There will be financial impacts (repair costs in a cost capped era). Imagine late race restarts after a red flag WITHOUT tire warmers!!

I do think F1 is probably a bit red flag happy at the moment. Someone mentioned insurance earlier. I tend to wonder if this is residual impacts of Jules Bianchi's death. That trying to put things back together under yellow may result in some type of repeat of that situation, then the sport would be skewered if that happened. Red flags... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I like the earlier comments by those who marshal with respect to the "marshalling to lowest common denominator" given the variability of marshal expertise when looked at globally. That is an interesting insight.

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Old 4 Apr 2023, 22:03 (Ref:4150444)   #128
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Originally Posted by chavez View Post
The one lap IMHO is not the issue.

It is the rules that allow a race to come to a finish, yet not allowing the competitors to improve their position.

Are they any other sports that actively prevent the competitors from improving their position while the clock (or in this case) the lap counter continues to click over?

Many sports either stop play for safety or injury reasons (and freeze the timer) or if the clock does continue to click, add the time on at the end.

A fair competition would allow for safety car laps not to be counted or at the very least ensure the competitors can actually compete at the conclusion of the race.

And if one lap sprints aren't acceptable, as appears to be the popular opinion here, what about two, three or what about five or is it seven?

Where is that sweet spot?
Motor racing is not a ball game like most sports.The combination of speed creating intrinsic danger means different protocols should apply.
As for what distance is too short didn’t they once declare races if 75% of distance had been completed?Thats a better solution to me to make them think if a red flag is really needed.
I was just as cranky about the 1 lap 2019 Bathurst 1000.
Stunts like these causes a big loss of credibility.
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Old 4 Apr 2023, 22:17 (Ref:4150446)   #129
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Originally Posted by chavez View Post

Are they any other sports that actively prevent the competitors from improving their position while the clock (or in this case) the lap counter continues to click over?

Many sports either stop play for safety or injury reasons (and freeze the timer) or if the clock does continue to click, add the time on at the end.
Why does F1 have to be like other sports?
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Old 4 Apr 2023, 23:08 (Ref:4150449)   #130
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It doesn't. F1 is a unique sport. But it needs to remain that, a sport
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Old 5 Apr 2023, 06:03 (Ref:4150455)   #131
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It doesn't. F1 is a unique sport. But it needs to remain that, a sport
So as a sporting competition the organisers should aim to have the most number of racing laps possible available for the cars to compete?

I don't have a problem with red flags to clean up a large or time consuming incident as it does allow more laps of competition. I believe the obvious issue with the Australian Grand Prix was recommencing the race after the red flag with standing starts.
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Old 5 Apr 2023, 08:09 (Ref:4150465)   #132
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Obviously they need to complete the race, but not by playing god and bringing the red flags out with a few laps to go. It's too manipulated. But if they had to use a red flag, a standing start should not be used with 5 or less laps to go
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Old 5 Apr 2023, 08:26 (Ref:4150467)   #133
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Originally Posted by dsg View Post
So as a sporting competition the organisers should aim to have the most number of racing laps possible available for the cars to compete?

I don't have a problem with red flags to clean up a large or time consuming incident as it does allow more laps of competition. I believe the obvious issue with the Australian Grand Prix was recommencing the race after the red flag with standing starts.

I can't summon the mental resources to convince myself that a parade lap(or two) behind a safety car .prior to a chequered flag,forms any part of a competition.They might have completed the stated distance but that is about the sum of it.
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Old 9 Apr 2023, 09:06 (Ref:4150859)   #134
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Originally Posted by P38 in workshop View Post
I can't summon the mental resources to convince myself that a parade lap(or two) behind a safety car .prior to a chequered flag,forms any part of a competition.They might have completed the stated distance but that is about the sum of it.
For no apparent reason the race thread was locked so I will respond here.

I agree the parade lap behind the safety car was pointless. However, two racing laps was not. If there is the opportunity to have two laps of competition they should have them. Why call the race off when more of the scheduled racing can occur.
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Old 9 Apr 2023, 13:16 (Ref:4150875)   #135
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For no apparent reason the race thread was locked so I will respond here.
Don’t know why. Mod fat fingers it seems. Reopened and post moved into there/here.
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